LEFT Hand Short Fingers Technique

[Geri O]

My question involves my observations and some thoughts on my left-hand fretting hand.

For years and years, it seemingly wasn't an issue. But the past few years, the demands on my chops has been fairly light (country music, some classic rock, etc.). The bigger requirement is to be solid, play with authority, and lock in with the drummer and thus, the groove. Yes, even in country music, there's a groove....

Tonight, I was running through some fingering exercises that I'v not spent time with and it seems now that to cover 1-2-3-4 fingering on frets 1 through 5, I'm having to move my left hand slightly so I can cover the area.

I'm hoping that further practicing these exercises will limber up my hands. And I can make this stretch without the hand movement I'm seeing.

I don't know if I'm explaining this properly and making sense. It may be a non-issue in the big picture. I'm kinda not seeing a problem with this approach, but I do get to wondering if the hand movement is an acceptable way to play.

I play 34"-scale basses and I like the way they feel. I had a 35" bass that I rather liked and I believe I'd be comfortable with one again. I don't want to move to shorter-scale basses and I have no reason behind that desire.

Thanx for listening! Any teachers please feel free to comment and advise, if you feel led to do so.

 

[NewJackBass]

Do you mean LEFT hand/short fingers? As in your fretting hand? I also have short fingers and move my left hand back and forth to span 4 frets. It just is what it is

 

[Geri O]

Do you mean LEFT hand/short fingers? As in your fretting hand? I also have short fingers and move my left hand back and forth to span 4 frets. It just is what it is

YES, and thanx for pointing out the mistake. Thankfully I can fix.

And thanx for the observation as well.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

This may be apples and oranges, but in a conversation about left hand technique on the DB side last year a TBer talked about a "supple, fluid left hand" and shared the video below.

Granted - maybe apples and oranges. The dude is classical DB and doesn't play much down low in this vid. And even though I don't use my left hand like him much at all - I play EB, fretless mostly - I think there's a lot to be learned from the fluidity here.

I got a lot out of watching him at least.

 

[SteveCS]

...
I think there's a lot to be learned from the fluidity here.
...

100%. I never really understood the electric bass players' obsession with 'fixed' or 'locked' hands and keeping all 'trailing' fingers down. I know you read it in method books, but IMHO it is a 'beginner' idea designed to develop faculty and 'handshape' or 'posture' in the untrained hand. Watch the great classical double-bassists and cellists and more often than not you will only see one finger down at a time. High quality vibrato is almost impossible without getting other fingers off the string and out of the way, especially for us fretless players. That video you posted is a great example. It seems odd that we hear all about economy of motion then spend the whole time wasting energy keeping fingers in places where they are doing absolutely nothing. Hands should be loose and flexible within a strict framework of handshape, position and effective shifting. YMMV

 

[SteveCS]

...
but I do get to wondering if the hand movement is an acceptable way to play.
...

Provided it remains under deliberate control and isn't just fumbling around for position then why not? On the other hand (no pun intended) if the small movements you are having to make are 'intra-position', that is to say your hand is ending up 'between' positions and out of shape, it might be an idea to consider moving from OFPF to one of the classical 3-finger methods. Best thing I ever did - YMMV

 

[NewJackBass]

Provided it remains under deliberate control and isn't just fumbling around for position then why not? On the other hand (no pun intended) if the small movements you are having to make are 'intra-position', that is to say your hand is ending up 'between' positions and out of shape, it might be an idea to consider moving from OFPF to one of the classical 3-finger methods. Best thing I ever did - YMMV

3-finger method on electric bass? Do you mean index-middle-ring?

 

[SteveCS]

3-finger method on electric bass? Do you mean index-middle-ring?

No - Index/Middle/Pinky or Index/Ring/Pinky as taken from the classical double bass methods.

 

[the_Ryan]

Provided it remains under deliberate control and isn't just fumbling around for position then why not? On the other hand (no pun intended) if the small movements you are having to make are 'intra-position', that is to say your hand is ending up 'between' positions and out of shape, it might be an idea to consider moving from OFPF to one of the classical 3-finger methods. Best thing I ever did - YMMV

It’s entirely because I’m primarily a double bassist, but until about the 9th or 10th fret I default to 124, regardless of scale length, because for most situations it just feels better. In that area of the bass I’m more likely to stick to 124 and shift (or pivot, which again comes from my DB background). I also find 34 and especially 23 fingerings are much less comfortable and agile than 12, 13, and 24, and as such I don’t default to them. I’m not saying that I can’t use 1234 fingerings or that I never use extensions in the lower register, and I would still encourage practicing them as long as it doesn’t hurt, they’re just not my go-to.

EDIT: I forgot to add that by not using the non-playing fingers to support higher-numbered fingers you can also prepare upcoming notes more effectively IMO.

 

[the_Ryan]

This may be apples and oranges, but in a conversation about left hand technique on the DB side last year a TBer talked about a "supple, fluid left hand" and shared the video below.

Granted - maybe apples and oranges. The dude is classical DB and doesn't play much down low in this vid. And even though I don't use my left hand like him much at all - I play EB, fretless mostly - I think there's a lot to be learned from the fluidity here.

I got a lot out of watching him at least.

Joel tends to stick to playing half steps as 13 or 24, although if he has to use 3 fingers he usually uses 124 (sometimes 134, but IIRC he really only employs that when he’s in the neck block area). The DB works can suffer from a similar desire to have half steps perfectly gridded out and using the lower numbered fingers to support higher fingers, but I think a lot of that ultimately leads to less energy being devoted to the playing finger. My default on DB is to use a relaxed hand position (although that does not mean flying fingers) and using forearm and wrist rotation to move to other fingers, but the structured 124 hand position (albeit somewhat modified, I still use the same weight transfer as when I’m using a free hand, but my fingers are spaced out for two equal half steps) is necessary in a lot of situations.

 

[Drop1]

A lot of people call it micro shifting (slightly shifting, but not actually shifting playing positions) and it's perfectly ok.

In fact, without it, MANY people wouldn't be able to play.

It is faster/ easier to lock In without the shift, but for some, the shift can't be avoided. Trying may just lead to injury.

I enjoy watching some of the better female players play with their tiny hands. Their economy of motion is really incredible.

If they can keep time not using 1 finger per fret, a little micro shift shouldn't hold you back.

Like anything else, it will come down to practice. If you need to shift, you need to shift. How much you need to shift may gradually be less as your hands stretch even more, but you may never be able to eliminate all shift completely. I wouldn't even bother trying honesty. It sounds like you have experience. Your hands are likely already stretched about as much as they ever will. I'd focus on just getting the shift as smooth as possible and then forget about it.

 

[Geri O]

Great stuff, ya’ll. Most helpful and much appreciated!

 

[Dincrest]

microshifting is your friend. As I get older and my dexterity isn't what it used to be, I'm paying more attention to microshifting. This is especially important when I occasionally click into drop-D and sometimes have to fret "down the road" rather than "across the street."

I don't have big hands and my most comfortable bass has a 42mm (1.625") nut width with a slightly chunky neck profile (somewhere between a Soundgear and a Spector. I find that if necks are too skinny, they limit my movement. Like put your hand in a fretting position without a bass neck. the closer your thumb gets to your fingers, the narrower they're able to stretch.

So moral of the story, skinny necks are not the cure all for short fingers/smaller hands.

 

[Drop1]

microshifting is your friend. As I get older and my dexterity isn't what it used to be, I'm paying more attention to microshifting. This is especially important when I occasionally click into drop-D and sometimes have to fret "down the road" rather than "across the street."

I don't have big hands and my most comfortable bass has a 42mm (1.625") nut width with a slightly chunky neck profile (somewhere between a Soundgear and a Spector. I find that if necks are too skinny, they limit my movement. Like put your hand in a fretting position without a bass neck. the closer your thumb gets to your fingers, the narrower they're able to stretch.

So moral of the story, skinny necks are not the cure all for short fingers/smaller hands.

I agree with this. I play a sound gear and it does me no favors in spanning 4 frets.
It's small neck does let me reach across the board a bit easier and play below the 12 fret easier.

It's kind of a tradeoff. If I ever buy another bass, I will be looking for something with a still narrow, but thicker neck.

 

[NewJackBass]

I have small stubby fingers and bought a short scale thinking it would be better, but I played a Fender Precision at my first gig last week and actually found I like it better! It wasn't that much more difficult to play, at least not enough to notice. I have to micro shift more, but after two songs I was completely used to it.

 

[rstephens]

I find these days as my hands get older and weaker I rarely fret with my ring finger or pinky alone: they like to travel together. So I guess that’s my version of the three-finger technique.

 

[Geri O]

Micro shifting is a term I’ve not heard of or thought about until now.

Looking at this with that idea in mind will help me will help my practice time and playing.

I’m 66, so not as limber as I once was. But I’m able to play with no pain or soreness. A lot of what I’m experiencing is when I practice outside of my usual gig songs and needs. I hope to be spend more time on such material. Micro shifting, as someone put it earlier will definitely be my friend.

Again, thanx to everyone for a meaningful discussion. My favorite kind….

 

[mambo4]

I find these days as my hands get older and weaker I rarely fret with my ring finger or pinky alone: they like to travel together. So I guess that’s my version of the three-finger technique.

.
Sounds like standard Simandl 124 fingering to me
Ring and pinky act as a unit. There are solid anatomical reasons for it. The tendons of both are intermingled and they sort of want to move together

 

[AK Bass Guy]

I have a left hand injury which really limits the reach and dexterity of my ring finger. I gave up playing for years because of it. Would moving to Simandl technique be my best option? On a 32” scale bass with jazz nut my pinky and ring can still reach the G on the E string, I do have to pivot/shift my thumb a bit to do so but it doesn’t hurt or feel like it’s stressing anything out.

If this seams feasible what books or online training do you recommend? Should I just practice out of a double bass book? Any tips on how to rewire my brain to not go back to a 4 finger technique?
Here is a pic of what I’m dealing with.

edit: I should mention I already know notation and a decent amount of theory (a bit rusty) and my relative pitch is annoyingly good. So I only really need to touch up in those areas and improve.

Cheers.

 

[the_Ryan]

I have a left hand injury which really limits the reach and dexterity of my ring finger. I gave up playing for years because of it. Would moving to Simandl technique be my best option? On a 32” scale bass with jazz nut my pinky and ring can still reach the G on the E string, I do have to pivot/shift my thumb a bit to do so but it doesn’t hurt or feel like it’s stressing anything out.

If this seams feasible what books or online training do you recommend? Should I just practice out of a double bass book? Any tips on how to rewire my brain to not go back to a 4 finger technique?
Here is a pic of what I’m dealing with.View attachment 5494128 View attachment 5494132

edit: I should mention I already know notation and a decent amount of theory (a bit rusty) and my relative pitch is annoyingly good. So I only really need to touch up in those areas and improve.

Cheers.

My suggestion would probably be to figure out some scale and arpeggio fingerings that omit the 3rd finger (for the universal major scale fingering it'd be something like 14114124 or 14124124) and be really diligent about sticking to those fingerings, then relearning familiar basslines focusing on applying a 124 technique. In the low positions that should be okay; things might get a little tight when you're past the 10th-ish fret (which for me is when I feel most comfortable playing 1234) with having to maintain 3 and 4 as a unit to cover a half step, but it's not impossible.