Locking in with the drums.

[(b)Assman]

Yeah, I'm so influential

You misunderstand. First off, everyone in the band is responsible for good time, not just the drummer. Second, I never said anything about ignoring the drummer's time. I'm just saying that for the bassist to shape his part around what the drummer is doing is the wrong direction. Has nothing to do with time, but with parts. I think the bassist needs to shape his/her part around what the main rhythmic instrument is doing, and let the drummer come to you more than coming to him. If the drummer does something cool that you want to emphasize, so be it. But if you let the drummer dictate what you do on bass, it's going to sound boring 9 times out of 10.

I really need to hear the kick drum when I'm playing or I sound like crap. Grooving, 16th notes you name it I need to hear the drum. IMO covering up the drum rhythm is never good but playing with it is. I'm not saying you can't slam a low root note when the drum kicks just not all the time I don't think unless you're going for like techno or something.

 

[JimmyM]

I still don't think you're feeling what I'm saying. You need to hear everyone, and you need to listen to everyone and react off them. But if your band's guitarist writes a song, I'm saying most of the time you're way better off going by what he's doing than your drummer, who should be listening to the both of you and going by what you're doing rather than vice versa.

 

[jarrhead]

I still don't think you're feeling what I'm saying. You need to hear everyone, and you need to listen to everyone and react off them. But if your band's guitarist writes a song, I'm saying most of the time you're way better off going by what he's doing than your drummer, who should be listening to the both of you and going by what you're doing rather than vice versa.

That's a great idea.

 

[unclekebm]

go check out a traditional Bluegrass band and IMO gives light to what Jimmy is saying...
No drummer, yet still a strong "pulse"

I think if, as a Bass player, or any musician for that matter,
can groove the song solo, then "locking in" will just happen
or at least it will be a lot easier...

You gotta be able to tap your foot to, and feel the groove first

 

[Greevus]

Big difference in AC/DC and Tool. AC/DC locks in for sure. Tool is very syncopated and he plays on, in front of, and behind the beats. Danny Carey is a pretty amazing drummer too. I think 'holding it down' can get boring, but is very important to be able to do it properly. when in doubt, 'less is more' is a great idea. just make sure you understand where your notes are placed in relation to the drums. a lot of players just play their lines and hope it matches the drummer. as long as the both of you understand the rhythm lines completely, you will lock in.

 

[Kevmove]

"Locking with the drummer" occurs when the bass player and the drummer are so rhythmically in sync that they sound like one instrument. This does not require that the bassist plays exactly what the drummer plays (thought it doesn't hurt), but the rhythmic choices that the bassist plays accentuates what the drummer is playing. Locking can occur with or without melodic variation. Larry Graham (bassist for Sly and the Family Stone before he started his own group, Graham Central Station) talks about how he played one note for an entire song, creating variety through syncopation, dead notes, and other techniques that create percussive sound.

When the entire band "locks" this is "creating a groove". If there is a "sweet spot" in music, this is where you would find it, where rhythm and harmony coalesce into something far greater than the sum of the parts. An obvious example of this is found on any Motown track featuring the funk brothers. Recently, I have really got into "The Who" and their groove factor.

As you continue to develop as a bassist, remember that you have 2 very powerful assets, that can cause you to look good or look really bad: you can move a song rhythmically and harmonically. If you can't do both well, pick one until you get good, then integrate the other. There is nothing worse than a bass player who plays to many notes or plays notes that go against the groove.

True story: Chuck Rainey was gigging with Miles Davis, who didn't say very much. During the ride to their next gig, Miles blurts out "too many notes". Chuck got the point.

 

[DerBass008]

Hey Everyone, new here.

What about to learn some basic beats on the drums? If you have time and access to a drum set, of course. I play a little drums (just for fun) and that helped me a lot on what to play or not to play. It gave a fresh new perspective about the groove.

 

[JimmyM]

Right on, Der. I started on drums and it really gives you an appreciation on what you need to do to make the bass kick it with the drummer. Highly recommended...two thumbs up!

 

[wildhorse]

There are times music is what Jimmy is saying and there are times, most of the time that you lock in with the bass drum or the bass drum locks in with you. Think of it how you want but you should be together. Can you interplay around the rest of the players sure.
Should you always be right with the main rhythmic player, not if he's opposite the drums unless that is what the song calls for. Each song is unique but like I originally said a great place to start is with the bass drum. If you and the drummer are not locked in then the band will sound like crap. Unless of course that is what you want. A lot of music is just that today. This of course is coming from an old guy who plays bass, drums and guitar. Has a ton of experience in the studio in all capacities. What do I know.

 

[JimmyM]

Well, you don't like the VT pedal, so you've already cast doubt just by that

Heh heh...just kidding, Horse! Actually you are right...I just tend to resist certain concepts just because it's what everyone else uses as the safe route. But if you listen to me play, you probably think I don't resist those concepts because there are many times where I'll actually do stuff that sounds "locked in." But it's based more on just finding a part that works and keeps good time than a conscious effort to "lock in."

 

[wildhorse]

Well, you don't like the VT pedal, so you've already cast doubt just by that

Heh heh...just kidding, Horse! Actually you are right...I just tend to resist certain concepts just because it's what everyone else uses as the safe route. But if you listen to me play, you probably think I don't resist those concepts because there are many times where I'll actually do stuff that sounds "locked in." But it's based more on just finding a part that works and keeps good time than a conscious effort to "lock in."

Big difference in the VT Bass and an over clipped recording of one. Your own recordings however are excellent.

 

[JimmyM]

Thanks WH! I had the drive completely off on my recordings that are on here, though.

Here's a clip of Nine Inch Nails and the VT with medium distortion...you can hear it really good at around 1:18...

 

[wildhorse]

Thanks WH! I had the drive completely off on my recordings that are on here, though.

Here's a clip of Nine Inch Nails and the VT with medium distortion...you can hear it really good at around 1:18...

I'll take a listen later today when I get home. Work doesn't allow me in to youtube. When I hear the VT live or on good recordings it has a nice smooth tube distortion not a digitally clipped distortion. It's like the difference between a Bad Monkey and one of Digitechs higher end distortions for metal.
The Monkey has a nice tube sound and the metal pedal has a harsh digital sound. The VT just has a much better sound than the demo I've been listening to on youtube. I'll get one someday but it just seems over priced at the moment. Maybe when the economy turns around. Thanks again.

 

[Kenny Allyn]

I think I'm agreeing with Jimmy on this one ...

The other night I subbed for the host bands bassist at one of the local Memphis Blues Society open jam events. At such events you play with any number of different drummers, and that was true this night. Some can't keep time at all and then with others it seems effortless. I talked on the phone to the regular bassist next day (fellow TBer Slim Louis who is out on tour) and we mused about how you deal with time on those occasions. I told him I just closed my eyes played and tried to plough on, he agreeed BTW. So yeah the bass can really set the time and hope the drummer can sense the correction. But then again I que off the singer guitar player sooo to groove it's all gotta work.

As a side note ... I'm taking up drums to so it's really got me thinking about the whole groove picture. You see more when you can look at it from both sides. One of the practice methods I'm using is to record a bass track on a Boss looper and play back to my own bass line on the drums.

... In the end catching the groove is about all the elements working together.

 

[mattblissett]

My drummer and I have a great connection, established through a lot of time playing and hanging out, I tend to listen to the whole of what he is playing and then focus on the kick and the snare, but its mainly about getting to the point where we sound like one instrument, expressive yet still doing the job.

 

[theunknowndude]

My drummer and I have a great connection, established through a lot of time playing and hanging out, I tend to listen to the whole of what he is playing and then focus on the kick and the snare, but its mainly about getting to the point where we sound like one instrument, expressive yet still doing the job.

ditto,... I like playing with the guitar, emphasising certain drum bits (bass and cymbal hits together) but I have a black metal drummer playing in a thrash band... sometimes thta leaves me no options but to listen to things other than the bass drum... have learnt to use the snare in this instance or make a combined effort to even if he is doing some crazy fill to join back in on the 1... still a work in progress though as both of us can always get better

 

[chjohnst]

"Locking in with the drums" is one of those nebulous terms that essentially means "keeping good time." Yes, you can follow along exactly with the bass drum as a way of locking in, but while it does work for some things, it's ever so boring. I greatly prefer a bass player who knows when to plow right through the drummer, much like Jamerson used to in his best stuff, much like McCartney did in his best stuff, much like almost all my favorite bassists with the exception of Cliff Williams. Cliff mostly plays 16th note roots, but as far as I'm concerned, he can do no wrong

I also prefer taking the lead in the bass/drums dynamic. Since bass parts are usually based on what the main rhythmic instrument is doing (at least in pop styles), I think the drummer should take his cues from the bassist rather than vice versa. You can't tell them that or they get very upset , but I find it works better that way and makes for a more interesting rhythm section.

I play with a drummer that thinks locking in with the guitar is more critical then the bass. Not saying that only lock in with the bass, but its almost like he ignores whats going on sometimes as to what I am doing.

 

[JimmyM]

I play with a drummer that thinks locking in with the guitar is more critical then the bass. Not saying that only lock in with the bass, but its almost like he ignores whats going on sometimes as to what I am doing.

Maybe have a talk with him, or maybe if it sounds good as it is, don't mess with it. But I guess you wouldn't say anything if you thought it sounded good, so have a talk with him and see if you can't improve that dynamic.

 

[JmJ]

Listen to the way the drummer plays quarter notes and try to feel the time the same way.
Locking with one piece of the kit can be hazardous, what if you can't hear it well enough onstage? Better to get a sense of how he measures time.

 

[CrackerJackLee]

I wouldn't compose my basslines unilaterally without consulting the drummer, whether it is written or improvised. Bassists and drummers are not complete individuals - they are joined at the hip within the team. As the bassist and drummer listen to each other they respond to each other's suggestions. I see the drummer, in many respects, as the team leader, because the drummer usually starts and stops the musical sections and keeps the tempo - just like the conductor's baton. If everyone were responsible for tempo, the result could be chaotic. When the drummer is the foundation of time, the bassist can bounce the bass line off the drummer's beat. There's nothing like it when whatever the bass or drums are playing is locked-in and synchronized. What one plays convinces the audience that the other could not have played anything else. It meshes with the other as they set each other up for rhythm. Like heat seeking missiles, they're locked in. Where one goes, the other responds - in-sync. When one goes tic, the other goes toc. Can "locked-in" be quantified? It would be like quantifying melody. You know it when it's right, but you can't really explain it. Why do we whistle some tunes and not others?