Double Bass Looking for a Good (Real) Metronome

[DoubleMIDI]

I have a cheaper mechanical plastic case Wittner since 40 years and it never worked with equal beats. One direction was always quicker than the other. And Wittner was always known as the best maker of mechanical metronomes.
My parents (I was a kid when I got it) didn’t believe me that the beats are not regular, but they always have been. I never used it because of that. So a mechanical one can be worse than an electronic one.

I don’t have any such problems with electronic ones or apps and I found enough free ones that work well. The only thing that is worse on electronic metronomes is the sound, but at least one of the selection of sounds is typically useable.

 

[bengreen]

I don’t like anything that tries to stream through my BAHA bone conduction hearing aide while I play....

Ah, got it. Though hearing loss is more a given than a rarity with what we do, on a scale of 1 to 10, yours sounds about a 20. And bluetooth is a pain like that.

I had one surgery too as a kid for middle ear infection and it left me with some loss, but that's been long ago surpassed by just age and a lifetime of working in high noise environments.

How's the fidelity with your hearing aid?

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Ah, got it. Though hearing loss is more a given than a rarity with what we do, on a scale of 1 to 10, yours sounds about a 20. And bluetooth is a pain like that.

I had one surgery too as a kid for middle ear infection and it left me with some loss, but that's been long ago surpassed by just age and a lifetime of working in high noise environments.

How's the fidelity with your hearing aid?

The fidelity is absolutely amazing! It has four settings: the first one is for everyday conversation and general use; the second one is for noisy situations that actually increases the volume of those close to you and reduces the sound of the background conversations (which is so nice to have in between sets when I’m conversing with people at the show and for work meetings cause I can actually hear them talk for the first time - no more pretending I heard their name and what they said); the third setting is for listening to music (I use this in practice with my band and when I’m working on something by myself, or listening to music in my truck); and the fourth setting is for outdoors and when you need an overall sound experience — this one I use at movies and at large performances like plays or a symphonic performance because it’s so dynamic! Then I can actually customize my own settings for other situations, which I’m still playing around with to see what I might need it for. The BAHA even allows me to use my iPhone as an additional mic for the hearing aide itself in noisy situations, so I can turn that feature on and carry my phone in my front shirt pocket to help hear even better. It’s an extraordinary little device!

What surgery did you have for your inner ear when you were a kid? I started with tubes being put in both ears; then all for my right ear: two mastoid echtomies, then a procedure called an osiculoplasty, then a final procedure that I didn’t know the name of to kind of put things back together again. All in all I had my right ear cut off of my head three times, which made for a wicked scar that I like to scare people with at parties. People are like - “Aaaah! Frankenstein Ear” - plus my right ear canal is big enough to put my thumb in. It’s been a struggle with my hearing for years until I got the BAHA. I wasn’t a candidate for traditional hearing aides because they would have to be turned up so high that they would feed back way too much.

 

[s van order]

How about the standard Wittner and/or Wittner Taktell Mini metronomes? I believe they are wind up models.

John

Agreed, I have one and it does the job. It also elicits nice chuckles from my digital-age friends.

 

[SteSte]

I have a cheaper mechanical plastic case Wittner since 40 years and it never worked with equal beats. One direction was always quicker than the other. And Wittner was always known as the best maker of mechanical metronomes.
My parents (I was a kid when I got it) didn’t believe me that the beats are not regular, but they always have been. I never used it because of that. So a mechanical one can be worse than an electronic one.

I don’t have any such problems with electronic ones or apps and I found enough free ones that work well. The only thing that is worse on electronic metronomes is the sound, but at least one of the selection of sounds is typically useable.

Electronic is more accurate.
But accuracy it's not a value in music.
The metronome it's a tools that help you to hear what you do in a relative way, relative to another source of rhythm (the metronome). Within certain range of not-accurate beat the metronome force you to listen more and to adjust yourself more in relative way.
Playing it is a matter of listening, not a matter of accuracy.
And the entire cycle of the metronome (one side plus the other side) is always perfect.
And the mechanical metronome work on a pendulum phisical principle so if your it's not accurate (like any other) just put a few millimeters of paper below one side and you will make the metronome perfect. you should test it with a digital one (or an app) to verify it.
The app or the electronic sound is ugly and unnatural we should face with nature and his non perfect existence , let the learning and the routine be filled with nice sound. Learning music should be musical and filled with nice sound , if we loose the sound importance at first we cannot create nice music.
These are my crazy ideas...

 

[bengreen]

What surgery did you have for your inner ear when you were a kid?

Actually, no idea. I was too young. I just have a vague memory of the mask descending on my face.

After reading your response I googled "why surgery for ear infection?" wondering if it was one of those situations where docs tend to rush in with a knife when less invasive treatments might have worked. I basically came away with a checklist of options starting with antibiotics and then progressing through a sequence of increasingly adventurous surgical interventions that lines up exactly with your experience.

I've been exploring getting a hearing aid in recent years but not sure it would really help in orchestra. Most pressing issue is I can't hear the conductor well. Since most of the comments aimed at the basses are of the "you're dragging" or "you're out of tune" variety, with much of what she says I can fill in the blanks from the context. But I'm sure my stand partner is getting pretty sick of me constantly asking, "where does she want us to start?" So far I've tried a simple hearing amplifier, but find I have to rip it out once the talking ends and the music starts. I'll leave the tinnitus and note recognition discussion for another day.

 

[bengreen]

Electronic is more accurate.
But accuracy it's not a value in music.

I generally agree except that I often find in my own playing that what I'm wanting to attribute to my being expressive is truthfully me dancing around my technical deficiencies. I slow down when it gets hard.Or perversely, sometimes speed up. For me, a metronome is a reality check. I'll be expressive after I can prove to myself that I actually have the technique covered. Plus, in the same way that your tonal center can wander when playing alone if you avoid all open strings, I find my internal clock can wander to. The rubato becomes excessive. I personally need the discipline of a metronome in practice because I just end up not being properly prepared if I do without.

Nice to know though, about the shims.

 

[Don Kasper]

Found this App for a metronome that adjusts to YOUR time -
"The Enabler" - www.yousoundgreat.com
(smiley face here.)
Thanks.

 

[turf3]

I have a cheaper mechanical plastic case Wittner since 40 years and it never worked with equal beats. One direction was always quicker than the other. And Wittner was always known as the best maker of mechanical metronomes.
My parents (I was a kid when I got it) didn’t believe me that the beats are not regular, but they always have been. I never used it because of that. So a mechanical one can be worse than an electronic one.

I don’t have any such problems with electronic ones or apps and I found enough free ones that work well. The only thing that is worse on electronic metronomes is the sound, but at least one of the selection of sounds is typically useable.

Take the front plate off, by removing four coarse thread screws at the four corners, and the two with tall cylindrical heads. All the mechanism is attached to this front plate.

In the clockwork you'll see the spring drum up top, then an escapement wheel with about 20 prongs; then the pendulum shaft which has two "sector" shapes on it. The escapement wheel needs to be lined up with the pendulum shaft, and the gap between the two sectors needs to be lined up with the arm of the pendulum. Also looking at it from below the space between the two sectors needs to be in line with the shaft of the escapement wheel.

It's real easy to adjust all these alignments by gently bending the brass cage that holds the whole machine. You have to make sure you don't cause the shafts to bind. Once I figured out what was wrong it took about 10 minutes to get everything lined up and the unequal beats were cured. I think the thing was probably dropped at some point, and the heavy guts (especially the spring drum) caused the light brass cage to get bent.

My other Wittner works perfectly from the beginning, no adjustment necessary.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

I

Actually, no idea. I was too young. I just have a vague memory of the mask descending on my face.

After reading your response I googled "why surgery for ear infection?" wondering if it was one of those situations where docs tend to rush in with a knife when less invasive treatments might have worked. I basically came away with a checklist of options starting with antibiotics and then progressing through a sequence of increasingly adventurous surgical interventions that lines up exactly with your experience.

I've been exploring getting a hearing aid in recent years but not sure it would really help in orchestra. Most pressing issue is I can't hear the conductor well. Since most of the comments aimed at the basses are of the "you're dragging" or "you're out of tune" variety, with much of what she says I can fill in the blanks from the context. But I'm sure my stand partner is getting pretty sick of me constantly asking, "where does she want us to start?" So far I've tried a simple hearing amplifier, but find I have to rip it out once the talking ends and the music starts. I'll leave the tinnitus and note recognition discussion for another day.

I had a condition called Otitis Media, which is a recurrent ear infection causing hearing bone damage. I always thought it would make a great band name.

 

[s van order]

I generally agree except that I often find in my own playing that what I'm wanting to attribute to my being expressive is truthfully me dancing around my technical deficiencies. I slow down when it gets hard.Or perversely, sometimes speed up. For me, a metronome is a reality check. I'll be expressive after I can prove to myself that I actually have the technique covered. Plus, in the same way that your tonal center can wander when playing alone if you avoid all open strings, I find my internal clock can wander to. The rubato becomes excessive. I personally need the discipline of a metronome in practice because I just end up not being properly prepared if I do without.

Nice to know though, about the shims.

Good points. I found cellists fall in love with the sound and can drag expressive passages, I found it happening to me. So I slapped myself and said “self, you are a bassist by long-time training, get thy time solid.” Metronome is the reality check I need sometimes.