Looking for a 'tighter' sound live , especially low end

[pbass888]

Hi Everyone !
I have been playing some bigger clubs and stages lately, and have not been totally
happy with my sound. I have playing through backlines and some bigger cabinets and felt like my sound could use some focus and less mushiness on the low end.

I am trying to figure out if I need to learn to eq better, add a preamp, or a compressor! I play finger style on a jazz with rounds usually no effects, but, sometimes I use a sadwosky outboard preamp to add a touch of fatness.

Last night I used a ampeg 450 head and a 6x10 cab and found when I dialed in the tonethe was a lot of 'mush' that I could not dial out. The room acoustics were pretty friendly and made for live performances.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thankyou!
Pbass888

 

[Basshappi]

Just remember that bass guitar lives in the mids. If your running too much bass or are mid-scooping your EQ you can get a lack of definition. The same can happen if the room you're in is just resonant to low frequencies. Of course if you're always backlining then each rig has its own EQ curve.

So, try backing off the Bass frequency a bit and EQ'ing from the Mids.

 

[buldog5151bass]

As stated above, defined mids. Your "bedroom/solo tone" is not what you want to fit the mix.

 

[pbass888]

Thanks for the suggestions. I should also note that my usual gigs for the last several years have been jazz gigs in New York in mostly smaller venues,which are quiet a bit lower volume than the gigs recently.
The bigger venues are in the reggae world with a full horn section and the volume of my gigs has gone us significantly! I will work from the mids as suggested. Perhaps also I'm standing too close to the amps during sound checks?

Also as basshappi mentioned above, these are backlined gigs.

 

[ghostinthemach]

That fact that you're playing reggae which typically means extra fat bass certainly complicates your dilemma. I suggest a high pass filter (or a bass specic graphic eq) to deliberately roll off bottom at a selected frequency point.
Be sure the device allows manipulation of the crucial 70 hz range and below. More separate bands the better but 3 bands including and below 70 hz would probably be enough.
This would give you the ability to create a fatter tone with the remaining frequencies and you'd be able to surgically remove anything below a desirable amount of controlled 'fatness'. Using this technique along with focus on mid and low mid sculpting should allow you to adjust to differing rigs and rooms.

 

[brianrost]

Cut mids in the 250-500 Hz range.

Use a high pass filter.

Raise the cabinet off the floor.

Of course, for reggae some mush can be a good thing.

 

[pbass888]

Thankyou ghostinthemach, a fellow bassist suggested the whirlwind bass 10 pedal. The pedal sounded great in his studio...
But, I do think there is a lot of 'user error' going when it comes to setting my backline amp for a show. I have yet to be really happy with my sound on the recent larger venue gigs.

 

[Reedt2000]

If these are big gigs I'd assume you're running through front of house? Are you talking about what the crowd hears or your stage mix? EQ-ing in some mids can certainly ad definition but you might be able to ask the engineer to tweak the monitor mix. Maybe less volume from the amp and more bass in a monitor. It also may be that your sound out of the mains is perfect.

 

[pbass888]

So maybe cut below 70 and cut 250 area? See how that sounds... I've generally left eq flat with a small cut in the highs.
Yes have been running through front of house with lots of bass through the amp...
that may be a problem!

 

[ahbass2500]

For me, the Auralex Gramma Isolation pads really helps with tuning out some boom. Even in a solid room acoustically (studio), I find that the Gramma helps. Yes you need to EQ, but keeping the room from playing with your EQ helps keep you in control.

 

[ghostinthemach]

So maybe cut below 70 and cut 250 area? See how that sounds... I've generally left eq flat with a small cut in the highs.
Yes have been running through front of house with lots of bass through the amp...
that may be a problem!

Cutting 250 gives a perceived fatness, rolling off around 70 (find your sweet spot) and below removes mush.

 

[pbass888]

For, example here's the band at a smaller club (and minus one horn) ,with a Hartke amp and a 410 cab where I did like the sound and a sadowsky di with a bass bump(very tiny). I have the eq completely flat.


But when I try to go for the 'record' sound.. below..the live sound goes to mush..same song

 

[Reedt2000]

So maybe cut below 70 and cut 250 area? See how that sounds... I've generally left eq flat with a small cut in the highs.
Yes have been running through front of house with lots of bass through the amp...
that may be a problem!

Depends, if FOH is taking your signal before the amp's preamp EQ then what the amp is doing doesn't represent what the crowd hears much at all. If that's the case tweak the amp to be a clear monitor for yourself. Even with the preamp EQ the engineer is probably tweaking your tone so it sits in the mix.

 

[Reedt2000]

For, example here's the band at a smaller club (and minus one horn) ,with a Hartke amp and a 410 cab where I did like the sound and a sadowsky di with a bass bump(very tiny). I have the eq completely flat.


But when I try to go for the 'record' sound.. below..the live sound goes to mush..same song

Your live tone doesn't piss me off. It will be tough to get that compressed, defined low end from your recording live. I thought your live sound was good. It had clarity enough to clearly hear what you were playing but was still bass-y.

 

[Stumbo]

fdeck's adjustable hpf fits the bill. Also has a phase switch.

Also, a good 7-10 band eqs can plug into the effects return to dial in the low end.

 

[pbass888]

So yes I guess adjust the amp at say 70 and 250 , for the stage sound? Look at the original fdeck.. with no eq pedal ?Sounds like a good plan.

Redt2000, yes the foh are receiving signal before the pre. And the live clip was one that I did not mind the sound ...I would have loved to close to that without the mush in the last few gigs.

 

[ghostinthemach]

For, example here's the band at a smaller club (and minus one horn) ,with a Hartke amp and a 410 cab where I did like the sound and a sadowsky di with a bass bump(very tiny). I have the eq completely flat.


But when I try to go for the 'record' sound.. below..the live sound goes to mush..same song

Killer trumpet solo on that second track! And a great reggae bass tone as well. The live track feels less authentic a reggae tone. Good, but less authentic.

 

[pbass888]

That auralex pad looks crazy good!

 

[pbass888]

Thankyou Ghostinthemach...Dusty is a great trumpet player. the studio sound on the bass was the sound in my head

Also the live sound with flats, tried once, was a huge mush fest !

 

[CapnSev]

I haven't played with it live yet, but I have enough experience to say that the Tech 21 Q/Strip with the high-pass filter engaged will clean up that mud right away. I'm super impressed with this pedal. I generally have always liked a high-pass when playing live to keep me out of the subwoofers, because most of the time they are way over-the-top. The kick drum can have them.

I used to use a Durham Sex Drive as well, which did a great job of tightening up the bottom. I used to combine that with a 40Hz cut, and a 120Hz or so boost.