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Looking for some input on my band

J

johngalt1977

Guest
Dec 8, 2012
37
4
Slinger, WI
#1
Some background: we are a group of mid-thirties guys. Formed actually out of an idea 10 years ago that me and the (now) guitarist had... We know a few really interesting, bright people, and we thought it would be fun to put us all in a cabin for a week and just kind of shoot the breeze, and see what happened.

Two of the guys are poets (now have MFA's and get published) so we started there. Writing was the background for what we did for a long time, but we are always stretching ourselves somehow... Different themes, different genres, etc. We also did some photography, art, short stories, etc. Anything to scrape the scum off of our brains.

3 years ago one of the guys got a bug to write a song. Other that the aforementioned guitarist, and some HS band & choir experience, none of us had any "real" musical experience.

Well, the bug bit us and bit us hard. One of the completely uninitiated guys now plays guitar, uke, mando, banjo, and harps with a pretty solid level of proficiency. Our guitarist went from a good rhythm guy to a solid lead. Another had also learned guitar and keys. One mostly sings. And I've been doing well learning the bass.

Just within this last year, we've clearly gone from a bunch of guys screwing around with instruments to being a band. We play every week, and still go up north for a week twice a year to write & play.

All in all, very cool. But the problem is that none of us can, nor particularly want to, drum. We keep asking guys we know to learn, come play with us, and nobody seems willing to make any commitment.

In a lot of ways, our advancement has gotten stuck because of this. We fool around with drum machines sometimes, but its just not the same.

The difficulty arises in that this group has become very tight knit over the years, and we don't want to spend 2 weeks a year plus every Thursday with just anyone. We refer to each other as brothers like some sort of fraternity, but the term is used in the most genuine and honest manner.

Another is that we are just a hobby band. I think we would like to play out a few times, but our focus is much more on the creation and we are never going to be a "gigging band." I'm not sure what kind of "real" drummer would even want to be a part of this, assuming we could find one copacetic to our group.

Are there drummers out there that would fit out bill? How do we find them? I can just see the Craiglist ad ending up in the funny craigslist ad section here on TB. "Group of ex poets in search of drummer. No gigs, no pay. Oh, and you've got to fit in and be willing to play everything from Iron & wine to Rage."

Any discussion, wisdom, ideas, etc out there for us?
 
#2
You can find drummer that would do it even if it just more of a learning experience. Our drum has issues showing up to practice so I run drum tracks. We don't like it but we are still searching for a replacement. If you record, create the tracks to play to and use them in practice.
 
#3
Honestly, I think Craigs is worth a shot. You would be surprised at how many guys might be out there looking to do a light committment thing just for fun.

The other thing would be word of mouth. Do you know any other musicians in your area? Let them know you are looking and you might get some potential names. I could name a couple right here in my area.
 
#4
I could name a couple here too. Yes they exist, I'm playing with a similar outfit right now.

Post on Craigslist listing your influences and stating you're looking for drummers to "jam" with. That way they know its a more casual scene, and you can feel out several drummers to see if any click.
 
#6
I'm encouraged by the responses, and very much appreciate it. This thing is just getting to the point that its starting to get really fun and it would be really cool to find someone that clicked.

I'm going to let this marinate a bit but I've got a feeling that I'll be putting up something on CL tomorrow..
 
#7
You don't have to have a traditional drummer. If anyone has a good sense of rhythm, you can do hand drums of some sort, including this kind of thing:

http://www.amazon.com/Roland-HPD-10-HandSonic-10/dp/B001JTQBY0

I think you use your fingers to tap out rhythms with that sort of thing.

Even if you don't get a drummer, there's no need to despair. If the bass and rhythm guitar can lock in together and create the rhythm, you are still good. Maybe the singer can shake a shaker or tambourine or something.

Post some of your music -- I'd be interested to hear it.
 
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#8
Just saying, if a bassist came on here and said that he'd auditioned for some band with these expectations and ambitions, quite a few people on this forum would say "red flag! red flag! run away!".

Why not gig? If you want a decent drummer you need to gig. If you want to bond with him and your other friends more tightly you need to gig. It's a lot more fun than jamming at home even if nobody is trying to make it and you aren't living on top ramen in the back of a minivan cruising through the Great Plains for months at a time.
 
#9
SnowCal said:
Just saying, if a bassist came on here and said that he'd auditioned for some band with these expectations and ambitions, quite a few people on this forum would say "red flag! red flag! run away!".

Why not gig? If you want a decent drummer you need to gig. If you want to bond with him and your other friends more tightly you need to gig. It's a lot more fun than jamming at home even if nobody is trying to make it and you aren't living on top ramen in the back of a minivan cruising through the Great Plains for months at a time.
Click to expand...

Very valid points. And I'll concede that the expectations are unrealistic in many ways, which is in part why we haven't pursued a drummer more aggressively.

Now I've been sitting here wondering why we don't set ourselves on a course to gig. Right this moment we are too rough, but that will come with time & practice. I guess we never really felt like we were heading that direction. Really no reason not to though I guess.

I'll post some stuff in a bit... Our playing and our sound engineering still have a ways to go, but we are perfectly willing to share it for what it is... Kind of a record of what we are up to more than a demo per se.
 
#11
I_LIEK_BASE said:
Have you thought about non-traditional percussion at all? Hand drums, tamborines, etc. This could be a great way to at least temporarily move forward as a group. It also lends itself well to the poetic aspect of the group (maybe?)
Click to expand...

Yes, we've messed around with that some, and will more.

Also, its kind of odd, I don't feel like we've really dug into the poetic aspect too much yet... It's kind of like we have been too busy learning music to do anything in that direction. That'll come, too, I've got a feeling.

Here's one from our most recent practice and one from our last trip to the cabin. The guy singing in kill the sun is obviously finding his way around the song a bit. Drum machine on that one. Josef Stalin has better vocals, but the guitars are fighting rhythmically, and we were really struggling with recording the 12 string for some reason, so its sound is really thin.

So, take it for what its worth :):beer:

http://soundcloud.com/johngalt1977/sets/mead-lakes-most-wanted
 
#12
You just might find other like minded people on CL - not everyone necessarily needs to gig to feel satisfaction. Some people are content making music even when it's just for themselves...just like any other artist...I never "needed" a gallery to feature my paintings in order for me to continue wanting to paint! It depends on what you are after. I'll explain more in a minute.

You'll need to be patient and probably find someone who's always had untapped musical yearnings...not unlike where you guys started?

I'm in my late 30's and just started playing bass a few months ago - I'd always wanted to my entire life, but being a single mom and career woman always took center stage. Now that my daughter is in college, I'm able to focus on myself more, and finally picked up that bass in January!

I'm now in a "band" similar to yours - we like getting together a couple times per week to see what comes out of us, and unleash whatever is pent up.

The "band" actually started two years ago, with two guitar players - one had been a closet player for 20+ years and the other was a newbie who had just started playing in his 30s. They played acoustically, just "messing around" and the drummer (who also first started playing later in life) started out on bongos, and joined these guys kind of as a hobby outside of his family and work. After awhile they started to get more into the music and went electric - the drummer got a kit - they started buying gear because the "bug" bit them - and they were missing a bass. Intro the dilemma not unlike yours - how do you find a bass player who will fit the chemistry?

Fast forward to this January. I happened to be close friends with one of the guitarists and had no idea about this "band" he had been doing - and when I told him I was having a midlife crisis of sorts and wanted to finally learn how to play bass, he got SO excited and it was like total fate. I would have started playing regardless, but being with these guys has helped me grow so much - playing with other people is way better than any of the lessons I took. They were all super patient with me because they know how it feels to learn something new, and it's been awesome. I've advanced pretty well considering I've only played for a few months and every week I get better, and every week our group gets tighter.

We might want to "gig" someday but we aren't really that concerned about it. Why?

For one, we play original songs and it's not easy for originals bands to just line up gigs. We don't want to do covers, not that anything is wrong with that, it just isn't what brought us together. I do cover songs when I practice alone at home, to learn techniques. But my favorite thing is to jam with my guys! That's when I'm grinning while playing....

Secondly, we all have full careers and families in various stages. We like our rehearsal time to be relaxing/venting time - not another pressure. We all travel a lot for work and have to be flexible with each other. We do have about 6 original songs that are pretty tight, but if one of us can't make it, no big deal. We just jam more.

Anyway, just food for thought. I just know that my band was seeking me as much as I was seeking them - and it has nothing to do with money or spotlight. So throw your ad up - be straight about what you guys are about, and you'll probably get answers. As long as you don't misrepresent and say you'll gig if you aren't sure, you'll attract the right person.
 
#14
johngalt1977 said:
Yes, we've messed around with that some, and will more.

Also, its kind of odd, I don't feel like we've really dug into the poetic aspect too much yet... It's kind of like we have been too busy learning music to do anything in that direction. That'll come, too, I've got a feeling.

Here's one from our most recent practice and one from our last trip to the cabin. The guy singing in kill the sun is obviously finding his way around the song a bit. Drum machine on that one. Josef Stalin has better vocals, but the guitars are fighting rhythmically, and we were really struggling with recording the 12 string for some reason, so its sound is really thin.

So, take it for what its worth :):beer:

http://soundcloud.com/johngalt1977/sets/mead-lakes-most-wanted
Click to expand...

So it's a project with not particularly commercial music. Do you want to gig? Then you need to start. Get some gigs lined up, find a drummer, and make it happen. You're probably not gonna make $100/head/night like Bluewine expects. You're probably not gonna make anything. Gas money would be nice. You might be playing at open mics. Good place to get some experience playing in front of an audience. But you guys have gotta start taking those steps towards being a gigging band. It really depends on where you are what sort of opportunities will be available to you. Regional differences are huge in regards to that. But there should be some place to play regardless of where you are. The worst you can do is an open mic. And that sort of stuff goes a long ways towards making people feel like they're actually doing something and not just jamming.
 
#15
Lilgray, thank you very much for the thoughtful response.. its good to hear a story of someone in what seems to be a very similar sort of a situation. That all sounds very familiar to me. :) Do you share your music in any way? Bandcamp/soundcloud? Playing for for families? Anything like that? Just curious what your take on that is.

Snowcal, I think maybe you hit on something with the accessibility of what we are producing as well. We've got probably 15 or so originals that we are working up. Maybe 5 of them, when we get them tight, would be giggable. Some of the stuff we do is kind of novelty, some of it is stuff we wrote that just isn't going to take on a life of its own (inherently means far more to us than it ever would to someone else) and the style changes pretty radically in general from one song to the next. Hence the 5 that we've got that IMO are good enough to gig, would have a certain degree of accessibility, and are cohesive enough to stand as a "set".

I think we are getting close to settling on more of an identifiable sound, but since each of us write songs, I really doubt that we would ever be at a point that everything we produce is immediately identifiable as ours.

This whole discussion has been very useful, thank you TB!
 
#16
From what I've learned from this forum, there are more musicians than you think that don't care to gig and are more at home, hobby and recording type guys.

The fact that your not a gigging band shouldn't stop you from finding a drummer.

Blue
 
#17
Honestly, I think one of you should just bite the bullet and learn drums. From what I know of situations like the one you describe (close friends, nobody wants to learn drums even though you know it's holding you back), I probably wouldn't jump at the chance even if I played drums and didn't want to gig. I think it might be a very frustrating situation for someone who isn't one of you.

But if you want to keep it as what it is, there's really no harm in that. If you're having fun with it, just have fun with it. A drummer would help take it to the next level (so to speak), but there seem to be other indicators that you're not all that into the idea of taking it that seriously anyway.

I'd say either have someone in the group learn drums or continue on without a drummer. There's no harm in testing CL, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.
 
#18
A few thoughts:

It doesn't hurt to post a CL ad. You never know who might turn up. I wouldn't count on it, but you might stumble onto some hobbyist drummer who just wants to play something different and have fun.

I am of the school of thought that says music is meant to be shared, even if you're not planning to make a living at it or even gig as a part-time paying thing. Go play your stuff at some open mics, maybe sign up for a town street fair, that kind of thing. Get to know drummers at open mics and ask them to sit in for you so you don't have to use a drum machine. It's not asking for a commitment to join the band, but it's making contacts and maybe somebody will take an interest or can refer someone to you.

Also, consider having one of your existing guys take up some percussion. Doesn't have to be a full kit and doesn't have to be every song. But one of you could put down his guitar from time to time to play bongos or djembe or something. There used to be a pretty cool local originals group near me who were guitar, bass, and congas.

Or you could lay down a drumbeat on a loop pedal - a touch less mechanical than a drum machine - and then pick up a guitar to play. You can also multi-task with stuff from here... Link Removed .
 
#19
johngalt1977 said:
Lilgray, thank you very much for the thoughtful response.. its good to hear a story of someone in what seems to be a very similar sort of a situation. That all sounds very familiar to me. :) Do you share your music in any way? Bandcamp/soundcloud? Playing for for families? Anything like that? Just curious what your take on that is.
Click to expand...

We do friends & family "concerts" because we do like sharing our music - and we do want to record our stuff soon and start putting it out there. When I joined, the band already had quite a few songs but because they started acoustically (and had just recently gone electric before I came along) when I came into the mix with my bass, it changed everything and we're re-doing a lot of the songs. Even switching from acoustic to electric changes the guitar style (don't have to be as "strummy") and now that my bass can hold things down, the guitarists are exploring their newly found freedom within each song. So once we re-structure the songs we plan on recording and doing our own mixing.

When I practice by myself, I usually find drum tracks on youtube and come up with bass lines and riffs. Then when we get together, I'll ask the drummer to give me a similar beat and I'll play what I came up with and the guitarists start layering over that and then we come up with lyrics. We try to record as much of that as possible so we can fine-tune it and come up with new songs.

We do plan on playing at some open-mic nights too, in the future - more for the joy of playing in front of people and socializing with other musicians aspects - but I don't really see us soliciting bar gigs or making any money, and that's just fine with us!
 
#20
To follow up, we ended up having someone come over this week that has been playing in his basement, or with buddies here and there, for years. Just looking to jam more often with real people. Seems like a good guy and plays very solidly. I think its going to work out well.

I just got done mixing down our practice from this week and sending it out to the guys, and we are going to love having a real live drummer. I'm so stoked I'm not sure sure when I'm going to get to bed. I really think its going to be a great step for all of us musically.

He's actually a friend of one of the guys in the band, we didn't know he played, but for the record, those of you that said it would be worth it to lay out what we are up to and what our goals are, and invite someone over were right.

Thanks again for the feedback and encouragement.
 

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