Low E Rattle

[Jefrey Kmak]

I play through an older Carvin 410 cabinet where the speakers have been replaced with Eminence Beta 10's. It sounds fabulous, EXCEPT for a noticeable rattle whenever I hit an open low E. There's a slight rattle on the low F. EVERY other note sounds crystal clear. I've eliminated everything I can think of that would cause it. But the rattle remains. Could it be the speakers? they're not that old. Maybe three or four years. It's frustrating. If I play the open E really softly, there's no rattle, but at gig volumes it's there. Any ideas?

 

[agedhorse]

What amp are you using?

Did you do the math before replacing the speakers? I wouldn't think the Beta 10" drivers in a 410 would be a great choice above about 250-300 watts in most applications.

 

[Jefrey Kmak]

What amp are you using?

Did you do the math before replacing the speakers? I wouldn't think the Beta 10" drivers in a 410 would be a great choice above about 250-300 watts in most applications.

According to the literature, each one is rated at 200 RMS. The four of them should be able to handle the power amp. And again, it's just the low open E. Every other note is crystal clear.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

Play it outside to determine it is nothing in the room making the rattle.

It may sound like the cab but not be.

 

[agedhorse]

According to the literature, each one is rated at 200 RMS. The four of them should be able to handle the power amp. And again, it's just the low open E. Every other note is crystal clear.

In an ideally tuned cabinet, with a 45Hz HPF (24dB/octave), 4 x Beta 10's are good for about 400 watts RMS total (100 watts RMS each) mechanically. The challenge with this driver is VERY limited Xmax which makes it an ideal candidate for a mid bass driver and not a bass driver. The most important information is between the lines (fine print) and at this point completely lost on you. IME, it's a terrible choice for a bass guitar cabinet unless it's for very low power applications with very little low frequency extension).

Without a HPF, here's what Eminence calculates (note that without a HPF the drivers are good for around 50 watts RMS):

 

[Jefrey Kmak]

Play it outside to determine it is nothing in the room making the rattle.

It may sound like the cab but not be.

That was my first thought. So I took the cabinet outside in my back yard. the amp is a rack system, and I hear a little noise from the latches. I isolated the cabinet on a concrete slab. I also took off the front grill to eliminate any rattles from that. I checked the input jack and made sure everything was tightened. Like I said it's really only that one note, but it's a note I like to use.

 

[Jefrey Kmak]

In an ideally tuned cabinet, with a 45Hz HPF (24dB/octave), 4 x Beta 10's are good for about 400 watts RMS total (100 watts RMS each) mechanically. The challenge with this driver is VERY limited Xmax which makes it an ideal candidate for a mid bass driver and not a bass driver. The most important information is between the lines (fine print) and at this point completely lost on you. IME, it's a terrible choice for a bass guitar cabinet unless it's for very low power applications with very little low frequency extension).

Without a HPF, here's what Eminence calculates (note that without a HPF the drivers are good for around 50 watts RMS):
View attachment 5473821

That's odd, because the literature that came with the speakers said 200 watts each. And when I go to the Eminence website, it says 250 watts each.

 

[agedhorse]

That's odd, because the literature that came with the speakers said 200 watts each. And when I go to the Eminence website, it says 250 watts each.

It’s not odd at all.

That’s the thermal power handling, which doesn’t apply to low frequency applications like bass guitar.

This is one of the dangers of changing drivers without REALLY understanding what you are doing.

 

[Slevage]

Can you borrow a keyboard that can play the notes that are giving you trouble?
Possible cause is a bridge rattle, truss rod rattle, or high fret.

If you’re sure it’s not the instrument,
Something inside the cabinet could be loose.

 

[agedhorse]

Can you borrow a keyboard that can play the notes that are giving you trouble?
Possible cause is a bridge rattle, truss rod rattle, or high fret.

If you’re sure it’s not the instrument,
Something inside the cabinet could be loose.

Since we still don't know what amp he's got, and how loud he's trying to get at the bottom of the scale, I still think there is more to this than we are getting. Just call it an experienced hunch.

 

[SlapHappyPappy]

Hope this doesn't sound to stupid but are you sure its the cab and not the bass itself rattling/buzzing against a high fret?

 

[NYCBass]

Did you properly reset the speaker and did you replace the speaker gaskets? The other thing could be one of the speaker wires is moving at a certain frequency and bouncing around inside the cabinet. Also check that everything on the cabinets is tight, like the girl cover and on input plate on the back. A rattle can be unnerving so I hope you find the problem.

 

[basscooker]

Does it continue if you turn down bass eq as you turn up volume?

Also does it worse if you play lower notes like a drop d or play on a low b string below 5th fret?

If it continues for both of these circumstances you likely are exceeding the drivers excursion capabilities.

 

[Stylee Mousse]

And for heaven’s sake make sure the girl cover is tight….

 

[Jefrey Kmak]

Did you properly reset the speaker and did you replace the speaker gaskets? The other thing could be one of the speaker wires is moving at a certain frequency and bouncing around inside the cabinet. Also check that everything on the cabinets is tight, like the girl cover and on input plate on the back. A rattle can be unnerving so I hope you find the problem.

I've checked everything on the outside. But you're right. I need to take it apart. I just dread doing it. It's a whole afternoon. But it probably needs to be done.

 

[Jefrey Kmak]

Does it continue if you turn down bass eq as you turn up volume?

Also does it worse if you play lower notes like a drop d or play on a low b string below 5th fret?

If it continues for both of these circumstances you likely are exceeding the drivers excursion capabilities.

I was suspecting that, but was hoping that was not the case. I'd rather not have to buy more speakers.

 

[Jefrey Kmak]

Since we still don't know what amp he's got, and how loud he's trying to get at the bottom of the scale, I still think there is more to this than we are getting. Just call it an experienced hunch.

It's definitely the speakers. I probably should get a keyboard to test it. That's a really good Idea.

 

[Jefrey Kmak]

Can you borrow a keyboard that can play the notes that are giving you trouble?
Possible cause is a bridge rattle, truss rod rattle, or high fret.

If you’re sure it’s not the instrument,
Something inside the cabinet could be loose.

It's definitely the speakers. I play fretless, so it's not fret rattle for sure.

 

[mikewalker]

Since you mentioned it's a 'rack rig', probably more than 200WRMS, right?
So I think that agedhorse has nailed it for you; just the wrong speakers for that application...

 

[daveman50]

Just to be sure, try a different bass through the rig.