Low output on new pickup

[kevmac]

I recently had new pups installed in my Harley Benton rb- 414
Rickenfaker.The install included a Nordenblocker Rick pickup in the neck position and a Sentell Rick replacement in the bridge position.Electronics are a Tone Monster preamp.
The problem is the low output from the bridge pickup.My tech who installed this said he tried all he knew but could only get so much out of the Sentell.With both pups I still get a good tone with plenty of volume but I would like to get what the Sentell is capable of.I have used their pickups and imo they are very good.Now I've found out that not all pickups work with Tone Monster preamps.I wonder if this could be the problem.

 

[BlueTalon]

Contact Sentell and ask them what they think.

 

[kevmac]

Contact Sentell and ask them what they think.

Yeah, I did but they weren't any help saying he was unfamiliar with Tone Monster.I can't remember where I heard that Tone Monster preamps aren't compatible with all pups.It may have been @LowEndLobster .I have a set of Joe Barden Rick pickups but I'd rather keep and fix the Sentell, despite the lousey answer from them they do make good pups.I also have a Darkglass Tone Capsule but I'd rather save it for something else considering all I've done already.This is a nice bass that I enjoy but I've already thrown too much $$ into a sub $200 axe.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Have you bypassed the preamp and tried the Sentell pickup on its own?

 

[kevmac]

Have you bypassed the preamp and tried the Sentell pickup on its own?

I had my tech do the work.He claims he did everything he could but without success.I've been doing business with this shop for over 30 years and their reputation is sterling so I gotta take his word.He said this is the first time this has happened like this.I guess I'll have to have him test the incompatible preamp theory.I didn't think of this until afterwards.The bass really still sounds good but I'm being stubborn on this.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

I meant to try the pickup without the pre and make sure it’s ok on its own. I have a couple of Jerry’s pickups and they are good but he’s human or something could have happened in shipping. If something is wrong with the pickup no amount of fiddling with the preamp will help.

 

[kevmac]

I meant to try the pickup without the pre and make sure it’s ok on its own. I have a couple of Jerry’s pickups and they are good but he’s human or something could have happened in shipping. If something is wrong with the pickup no amount of fiddling with the preamp will help.

I appreciate the advice and will address this.I'll run it by my tech but I'm betting he checked it out.Never hurts to be double sure.

 

[kodiakblair]

I can't remember where I heard that Tone Monster preamps aren't compatible with all pups.

Ty at Guitar Fuel advises against mixing piezo with magnetic or pairing the preamps with active pickups.

None of which apply in your case.

Could it just be Carey's pickup is much hotter than the Sentell ?

 

[BlueTalon]

I'm not familiar with Tone Monster preamps. Opinions of them on the internet vary widely. There are some scathing opinions of them here on TB. It's possible there's something wrong with the Sentell pickup, but it's also possible that there's an issue the preamp.

 

[kevmac]

Ty at Guitar Fuel advises against mixing piezo with magnetic or pairing the preamps with active pickups.

None of which apply in your case.

Could it just be Carey's pickup is much hotter than the Sentell ?

I guess it's possible.I'm in a bit of a quandary since hearing about the Tone Monster issue with some pickups.You read and hear about Rickenbacker bridge pups of different brands being weaker than the bridge counterpart.I would like to solve this puzzle though.

 

[kevmac]

I'm not familiar with Tone Monster preamps. Opinions of them on the internet vary widely. There are some scathing opinions of them here on TB. It's possible there's something wrong with the Sentell pickup, but it's also possible that there's an issue the preamp.

Can't argue with that.I've used them before and they worked out,but some don't care for them.I got into them watching Johnny Long a great player and Tech that owns Hobo Depot.He makes a ton of videos on the mods his shop does and he uses Tone Monster preamps on at least 50% of his projects,and they usually sound great.I can go in a couple of directions to remedy this but my stubborn Scottish-Irish self wants to know what's going on.

 

[dwizum]

I can't really imagine a way to design a preamp such that it would work with some typical passive pickups but not others. None of the pickups mentioned here are really far off from mainstream specs and they should all be 100% interchangeable in terms of working with any common preamp. Mix a piezo with a mag? Yeah, that will be a problem unless your preamp is designed for it - but that's clearly not the case here at all. Mix a super, super high impedance pass pickup with a super low impedance passive pickup? Yeah, another problem. But also not the case here. Mix a weak passive with a strong active? Same story - possibly a problem, but definitely not the case here. If you can come up with the specific claim of this pre not working with some pickups then we could address the logic behind the claim, but I otherwise I don't think it's a legitimate consideration.

It's hard to diagnose things like this remotely, especially if you feel the shop has already taken all reasonable steps. I agree that testing the pickup on it's own is a good first (next?) step. This is how I'd proceed: Check it's DC resistance, and compare it to what the manufacturer thinks is a typical value. Check that the magnets are all OK (hard to do with any precision, but at the very least, make sure they pick up small magnetically conductive materials like steel nails). Even if the coil is OK, it's pretty easy to demagnetize an alnico magnet, and I've had pickups show up to me that were partially or fully demagnetized. So it's worth checking. If the pickup looks OK, I would wire it to bypass the preamp and see if you get a good signal. Wire both pickups to bypass the pre and see if they're balanced. Then we should know if it's the pickup or the pre.

 

[kodiakblair]

There are some scathing opinions of them here on TB.

That was one guy bitching.

He probably had terrible comms skills.

I had a problem with a blend pot , Ty told me that was unlikely but shipped a replacement all the way to Scotland FOC

He was right. This eejit had connected the pickup incorrectly

It's the same story in this 122 reply thread , the few issues mentioned were user error and once resolved the users were happy campers .

Tone Monster SBK preamps? Anybody here use them?

 

[BlueTalon]

That was one guy bitching.

He probably had terrible comms skills.

I had a problem with a blend pot , Ty told me that was unlikely but shipped a replacement all the way to Scotland FOC

He was right. This eejit had connected the pickup incorrectly

It's the same story in this 122 reply thread , the few issues mentioned were user error and once resolved the users were happy campers .

Tone Monster SBK preamps? Anybody here use them?

Fair enough. I didn't read the whole thread, just skimmed it to see if there was anything relevant.

 

[Jandy Bass]

I recently had new pups installed in my Harley Benton rb- 414
Rickenfaker.The install included a Nordenblocker Rick pickup in the neck position and a Sentell Rick replacement in the bridge position.Electronics are a Tone Monster preamp.
The problem is the low output from the bridge pickup.My tech who installed this said he tried all he knew but could only get so much out of the Sentell.With both pups I still get a good tone with plenty of volume but I would like to get what the Sentell is capable of.I have used their pickups and imo they are very good.Now I've found out that not all pickups work with Tone Monster preamps.I wonder if this could be the problem.

What's the ohm rating on each? Is it possible you're using a very high output neck to go along with a lower output bridge? If that's the case, you will have to lower the neck to almost body level and the bridge to right below string level to get it close.

When choosing pickups, it's very important to choose matching sets, in terms of output....The bridge should always have a slightly higher output than the neck, because the strings are tighter and there is less vibration for the pickup to, well, pickup....Some P-J setups don't apply that logic, but that's how it should be..The Ohm rating (which is just a loose idea of it's overall output level) will let you know if they are even close or not. With P and Jazz combos this is a very common issue, because the P pickups are used to being on their own and are usually a higher output level than bridge pick ups. So, if you notice, most PJ set ups require the E and B string pickups to be at body level. That's why the P is such a great design too..You can adjust each set of two independently.

I know some people have this issue when trying to pair stuff like the Dimarzio Split P with a Jazz pick up in the bridge. The Split P pickups should really just be in their own bass. There is really no "match" for them. They have a huge output rating.

Looking on the Nord Website,they don't have the ohm ratings for your Nordenbocker, but it does seem that they are labeled as a much "higher output" than stock.

So, you can call Sentell and see if he would be willing to do a deal with you to get a better match to your neck. he probably just tried to give you a direct output comparison replacement for your stock pick up. The other options are to return the neck and get another Sentell for the neck, or Vice Verse with Nordstrand....You can probably sell the extra pick up you have pretty easily.

 

[Jandy Bass]

Yeah, I did but they weren't any help saying he was unfamiliar with Tone Monster.I can't remember where I heard that Tone Monster preamps aren't compatible with all pups.It may have been @LowEndLobster .I have a set of Joe Barden Rick pickups but I'd rather keep and fix the Sentell, despite the lousey answer from them they do make good pups.I also have a Darkglass Tone Capsule but I'd rather save it for something else considering all I've done already.This is a nice bass that I enjoy but I've already thrown too much $$ into a sub $200 axe.

When I was dealing with Sentell, he also told me to just skip the preamp and use passive on my jazz pickups. He was right when I had the stock epiphone bassboost preamp. I removed it and the pick ups did sound much, much better. but that was a terrible Epiphone preamp.

However, I did end up hooking them up to a Bart Preamp, before I got my Bart Pickups and the Bart preamp brought the Sentell Pickups to another, even greater tone level. I think he wanted me to try passive, because he wont trouble shoot the preamp and because of that he can never know if the preamp is the issue or not.

Tone Monsters are preamps from Korea. They are well made and sound pretty great. The only way to know if the preamp is the issue, is to hook them up passively. if you still have that drastic output difference, then you should complete a better set, honestly, by either replacing the Nord with a Sentell, or vice verse.

I don't believe the preamp is the issue, unless it's defective or something. It's a positive and negative signal being sent to an electronic circuit and then out to an amp. (These are basic pickups. Unless it's overloading the circuit, or is hooked up incorrectly, I don't see how that could be the case.)

 

[kevmac]

When I was dealing with Sentell, he also told me to just skip the preamp and use passive on my jazz pickups. He was right when I had the stock epiphone bassboost preamp. I removed it and the pick ups did sound much, much better. but that was a terrible Epiphone preamp.

However, I did end up hooking them up to a Bart Preamp, before I got my Bart Pickups and the Bart preamp brought the Sentell Pickups to another, even greater tone level. I think he wanted me to try passive, because he wont trouble shoot the preamp and because of that he can never know if the preamp is the issue or not.

Tone Monsters are preamps from Korea. They are well made and sound pretty great. The only way to know if the preamp is the issue, is to hook them up passively. if you still have that drastic output difference, then you should complete a better set, honestly, by either replacing the Nord with a Sentell, or vice verse.

I don't believe the preamp is the issue, unless it's defective or something. It's a positive and negative signal being sent to an electronic circuit and then out to an amp. (These are basic pickups. Unless it's overloading the circuit, or is hooked up incorrectly, I don't see how that could be the case.)

No flys on you.You have a lot on the ball with this stuff.I'm going to my tech tomorrow and he's going to give it the once over and says we'll get it right.I will run this info by him.Thanks.