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Low pass filter to be placed at amp's direct out?

DaveParker39

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Feb 28, 2022
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I really like the plugged in tone of my amp, but the XLR DI out (even with speaker sim) is a bit harsh on the top end.

To me, that would indicate a low pass filter could help, but I wouldn't want it to color my amp-on-stage-tone, just the speaker emulated XLR DI out from the amp.

Is there an LPF that could accomplish this, and is it even the right tool?
 
Are you using IEM’s or wedges?
When you say it’s a bit harsh do you mean in IEM’s, Wedges or FOH?

If it’s IEM’s then you should easily be able to EQ your mix. If it’s FOH then your sound Engineer should be handling that. If it’s wedges then it may be the wedges you are using but should still be something that could be fixed with EQing.
 
Are you using IEM’s or wedges?
When you say it’s a bit harsh do you mean in IEM’s, Wedges or FOH?

If it’s IEM’s then you should easily be able to EQ your mix. If it’s FOH then your sound Engineer should be handling that. If it’s wedges then it may be the wedges you are using but should still be something that could be fixed with EQing.
^^^ Thirding this.

1- This should be handled at playback, not at your DI send. If it's on-stage monitors or FOH, the sound engineer will have to EQ some of that harshness out for you. If you have IEMs, everyone should be able to have their own mix, and ideally you should be able to EQ the harsh frequencies lower until it sounds less harsh. Which segues into:

2- This should be handled with EQ, not a filter. Filters completely filter out signal. They start rolling off approximately at the cutoff frequency, and rather quickly lower the level of frequencies to the point where they're functionally gone. But those frequencies, even the harsh ones still have sonic information and musical value. Just because they're harsh doesn't mean those frequencies need to be removed completely. It just means there's too much of them, or the harmonics are stacking in an unpleasant way compared to the rest of the signal. All that needs to be done is those frequencies need to be lowered a bit until they're no longer harsh. Whether it be a tight-Q band at a certain frequency, a wide-Q band across a frequency range, or a high-shelf across most of the highs and high-mids, EQ adjustment would be better than ruthlessly filtering out all the high end info until you tame the harshness.

3- An effect AFTER your DI's output would require a different type of gear. Pedals are expecting Unbalanced Instrument Level inputs. Your DI is either outputting Balanced Mic Level or Balanced Line Level (depending on the box.) But even if you had a processor set up for the correct input level type, after the DI wouldn't be the proper place to use it.

4- Even though the "proper" place to deal with this is the EQ on the playback (IEM mix, wedge mix, mixing board channel, etc.), i realize not every venue's PA is robust enough to actually deal with the issue. You could potentially handle it by getting an EQ pedal BEFORE your DI.

You could get an EQ with similar layout as your Amp's EQ. (Same number of bands; similar center-frequencies.) Adjust your EQ pedal using only negative EQ so that the harshness out of the DI is tamed. Then EQ your amp the opposite of your pedal to bring back up the frequencies you reduced on the pedal. It's not an ideal thing to do, but also, live sound is never ideal. It's always making the best of a compromised situation.
 
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Need more info. What amp? Is the XLR pre or post EQ?

Most amps have a baked-in EQ curve to give them their signature sound. Typically it is a cut to the mids and/or boost of lows & highs. Makes them sound great through the amp's speakers but not in a full range system. If your XLR out is post-EQ you'll be sending this heavily EQ'd sound to FOH and you'll have lots of bright highs.

A better approach is a direct box between your bass and your amp. Leave HPF / LPF to the sound engineer.
 
If I was looking to solve this specific problem and assuming you're not using IEMs, I'd use a preamp pedal that has a parallel output so I could run an EQ'd signal from the XLR out to the board and an untouched signal from the parallel out to my amp for on-stage monitoring. I have a Tech 21 Q/Strip that has a really nice EQ as well as fixed point HPF and LPF that is perfect for this application.
 
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Are you using IEM’s or wedges?
When you say it’s a bit harsh do you mean in IEM’s, Wedges or FOH?

If it’s IEM’s then you should easily be able to EQ your mix. If it’s FOH then your sound Engineer should be handling that. If it’s wedges then it may be the wedges you are using but should still be something that could be fixed with EQing.

This ^^^^^^^

This is something you should be able to do at the board (assuming you have a capable one).


Good questions.

I use IEMs, and frankly if my IEM mix sounds like crap, it's alright as long as I can hear myself.

My amplified tone (Fender Rumble 800) sounds really good, just not with the speaker sim DI out. The actual amp sounds good.

Unfortunately, I have not had the best of luck communicating with sound engineers on gigs with house sound. There is a bit of apathy... so it ends up being me saying "can you dial out some of the top end fizz" and hearing back "that's your amp mate, roll back the treble" which just makes me muffled. I'd love to mic it, but no sound engineer wants to mic a bass amp.

Which is why if there is a way I can send FOH something that resembles my amp's tone, I'd like to do it.
 
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Good questions.

I use IEMs, and frankly if my IEM mix sounds like crap, it's alright as long as I can hear myself.

My amplified tone (Fender Rumble 800) sounds really good, just not with the speaker sim DI out. The actual amp sounds good.

Unfortunately, I have not had the best of luck communicating with sound engineers on gigs with house sound. There is a bit of apathy... so it ends up being me saying "can you dial out some of the top end fizz" and hearing back "that's your amp mate, roll back the treble" which just makes me muffled. I'd love to mic it, but no sound engineer wants to mic a bass amp.

Which is why if there is a way I can send FOH something that resembles my amp's tone, I'd like to do it.
So it sounds like you have an issue with how you perceive your tone to sound at FOH? What are you judging that on? You are on stage and using IEM's so you should concentrate on getting your IEM's to achieve the tone you want to hear. What makes you think that the FOH tone is not matching the tone your amp is putting out? Has someone said something to you? Are you talking about the sound on stage?

BTW....I don't see anything in the Rumble 800 manual that says that the DI has a cabsim built in.

Unfortunately or Fortunately, Your FOH tone is going to be at the mercy of the FOH engineer. That is why bands pay their own FOH engineers that they trust will deliver the best tone for the room that matches what the artist envisions and wants.
 
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So it sounds like you have an issue with how you perceive your tone to sound at FOH? What are you judging that on? You are on stage and using IEM's so you should concentrate on getting your IEM's to achieve the tone you want to hear. What makes you think that the FOH tone is not matching the tone your amp is putting out? Has someone said something to you? Are you talking about the sound on stage?

BTW....I don't see anything in the Rumble 800 manual that says that the DI has a cabsim built in.

Unfortunately or Fortunately, Your FOH tone is going to be at the mercy of the FOH engineer. That is why bands pay their own FOH engineers that they trust will deliver the best tone for the room that matches what the artist envisions and wants.
The rumble 800 has a cab sim. You have a straight di (no preamp or speaker sim) and a speaker sim post preamp. The speaker sim itself is just a high end roll off, I believe, not an IR.

It sounds like the two prevailing thoughts here are “you have to trust your sound guy” which unfortunately that’s not a luxury I often have, and also some alternative gear solutions. I appreciate the feedback and will continue to explore some of the gear suggestions people have made, thank you all for the suggestions.
 
If your Rumble DI is set to "pre" and not "post" then the sound engineer should never be heard saying "that's your amp mate".

Send the board the your amp DI's pre signal" and Let your front of House engineer get that sounding right. A pre signal is one with no EQ. Then, the engineer should be able to EQ the feed going into your IEMS. Make sure he understands your IEM's are too bright and he should be able to take care of that.

Now if your Rumble DI out is truly the problem, just get a floor pedal DI with a parallel 1/4" out (Sansamp comes to mind, but there are others). Send the DI out from the Pedal to the board, and the 1/4" parallel out to your amp. Voila! Problem solved.
 
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Good questions.

I use IEMs, and frankly if my IEM mix sounds like crap, it's alright as long as I can hear myself.

My amplified tone (Fender Rumble 800) sounds really good, just not with the speaker sim DI out. The actual amp sounds good.

Unfortunately, I have not had the best of luck communicating with sound engineers on gigs with house sound. There is a bit of apathy... so it ends up being me saying "can you dial out some of the top end fizz" and hearing back "that's your amp mate, roll back the treble" which just makes me muffled. I'd love to mic it, but no sound engineer wants to mic a bass amp.

Which is why if there is a way I can send FOH something that resembles my amp's tone, I'd like to do it.

If your Rumble DI is set to “pre” rather than “post,” the front-of-house engineer should never be saying, “That’s your amp, mate.”

When using the “pre” setting, you’re sending a clean, unaffected signal—no EQ, no coloring—from your amp to the board. This gives the engineer full control to shape the tone for both the audience and your in-ear monitors (IEMs). Make sure they understand your IEMs sound too bright, and they should be able to EQ that out at the board.

Now, if the DI out on your Rumble is actually causing the issue, consider using a floor DI pedal with a parallel 1/4" out (the SansAmp is a good option, but there are others). Send the DI out to the board and the 1/4" out to your amp. Problem solved.
 
The rumble 800 has a cab sim. You have a straight di (no preamp or speaker sim) and a speaker sim post preamp. The speaker sim itself is just a high end roll off, I believe, not an IR.

It sounds like the two prevailing thoughts here are “you have to trust your sound guy” which unfortunately that’s not a luxury I often have, and also some alternative gear solutions. I appreciate the feedback and will continue to explore some of the gear suggestions people have made, thank you all for the suggestions.
Well I see in the manual that it has Pre/Post DI. That is common for almost all heads. I can't find anywhere where it says that the Post has a cabsim.

I think what you are saying is that you are using Post which includes the Preamp section of the Rumble. That is NOT a cabsim. It is simply post preamp and EQ (Basically before it hits the power amp).

Again though...what is making you think that the FOH sounds "Fizzy" and bright?
 
Well I see in the manual that it has Pre/Post DI. That is common for almost all heads. I can't find anywhere where it says that the Post has a cabsim.

I think what you are saying is that you are using Post which includes the Preamp section of the Rumble. That is NOT a cabsim. It is simply post preamp and EQ (Basically before it hits the power amp).

Again though...what is making you think that the FOH sounds "Fizzy" and bright?
Look at the block diagram and you will see the cab sim.

What is making me think it is that I am hearing it through FOH in comparison to my amp and getting feedback from people who hear my band and the mix, and in some cases, the FOH themselves who want me to tweak what I am sending them.
1751990766932.png
 
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If your Rumble DI is set to "pre" and not "post" then the sound engineer should never be heard saying "that's your amp mate".

Send the board the your amp DI's pre signal" and Let your front of House engineer get that sounding right. A pre signal is one with no EQ. Then, the engineer should be able to EQ the feed going into your IEMS. Make sure he understands your IEM's are too bright and he should be able to take care of that.

Now if your Rumble DI out is truly the problem, just get a floor pedal DI with a parallel 1/4" out (Sansamp comes to mind, but there are others). Send the DI out from the Pedal to the board, and the 1/4" parallel out to your amp. Voila! Problem solved.
Problem there is that takes my overdrive out of the circuit. I'm always running my amp a little dirty.
 
Just put an OD pedal before the DI, or use a DI with a built in OD (like a Sansamp).
yeah, I mean I've used Sansamp before, and it sounds fine

I just think its silly to have a great sounding amp and throw it out the window because the XLR Out is letting through some undesirable frequencies.
 
Look at the block diagram and you will see the cab sim.

What is making me think it is that I am hearing it through FOH in comparison to my amp and getting feedback from people who hear my band and the mix, and in some cases, the FOH themselves who want me to tweak what I am sending them.
View attachment 7270292
Man...it doesn't say anything about that in the manual and then there it is in the block diagram! I'd be p#$$ed off if I bought one and then found that hidden in the schematic without mention of it in the rest of the manual!

Interestingly, most people that use cabsim's do so to make the drive and high end LESS fizzy.
 
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yeah, I mean I've used Sansamp before, and it sounds fine

I just think it’s silly to have a great sounding amp and throw it out the window because the XLR Out is letting through some undesirable frequencies.
Sometimes a pedal DI is going to send a better signal to FOH than an amp’s DI. They might have higher quality components, or a (better) DI, or have cleaner gain staging. That said, I thought that the Rumble’s DI & cabsim were supposed to be at the least functional.

Maybe a LPF between the Amp DI and FOH?
 
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