Low volume - what are my options

[LoungeLizard]

I can't seem to raise my volume in a way that sounds good when recording. I live in an apartment, so micing my cab isn't an option, unfortunately.

My current setup is an active pj bass into an ampeg pf500 xlr line out into a scarlet to my computer with reaper as my DAW.

The pf500 has no volume control when in line out. Raising the volume in the DAW produces a ton of clipping, and sounds really bad. Raising the gain on the scarlet produces a ton of clipping, and sounds really bad. I've been raising the gain on the pf500, and matching it with the compression on the head which sounds alright but produces a faint pop when the compressor kicks in on the first note.

I've been thinking of getting a sansamp BDDI or an Ampeg SGT-DI for recording, but before I do, I was wondering if there was a way to fix the issue using what I currently have. I've been thinking of adding a volume pedal, or something that could provide a clean boost. What are your experiences/recommendations?

 

[ClusterFlux]

I would simply record passive, directly into the USB interface, then use VSTs for amp sims, cab sims, and EQ.

If that doesn't work, then something is wrong with the interface or sound card.

 

[superheavyfunk]

I agree with the person above that recording bass straight in is simple and eliminates all of these issues. There are a LOT of free, high quality ampeg amp sim vsts out there and even better paid ones and you’ll never be able to tell the difference in a recording.

That said, I have some ideas about your situation:

1) The obvious one is, did you check the battery in your bass?

2) you have a lot of gain stages working here. There’s the one in your bass, then the pf500, then the Scarlett, and finally the DAW. Have you tried using the bass passive in this setup? If so, how did that sound?

3) Are you cranking the onboard preamp and then also tweaking the pf500? If so, you might be overloading things… too much high and/or low frequencies

 

[Chris Chong]

Raising bass track volume in DAW should not produce clipping, unless the recorded sound had already clipped, or there are other tracks in the DAW that you should turn down the levels.
Raise gain on scarlet should not clip if you don’t put too much gain and watch out on the clip light.
The compressor on the amp is popping, don’t use it.

If you are comparing the raw bass loudness to a commercial mix, it’s sure to be on the soft side, even if you had use the optimum gain level into the audio interface. A compressor in the DAW would help you trim the peaks and raised the softer notes up so it sounds louder.

 

[Jazzjames]

An interface with direct monitoring which is variable in volume (e.g. SSL 2) really helps to get the acceptable mix between sounds coming out of the DAW/computer audio and the bass. The Scarlett I had couldn’t do that so I sold it pretty quickly. SSL sounds a lot better for not much more money, which was a bonus.

 

[silky smoove]

Raising the volume in the DAW produces a ton of clipping

This occurs because you’re trying to exceed 0dbfs on either the channel or the 2buss. The solution is a better understanding of mix processes.

Raising the gain on the scarlet produces a ton of clipping

This occurs because you’re clipping the converter in your interface and sending it a signal that exceeds 0dbfs. If you’re getting it to clip, it doesn’t get any louder.

something that could provide a clean boost

If you’re already clipping the front end of your Scarlett, what good would adding more gain do?

The Scarlett I had couldn’t do that so I sold it pretty quickly.

All modern Scarletts offer direct monitoring.

 

[Jazzjames]

All modern Scarletts offer direct monitoring.

Yes, it had direct monitoring, but the one I had (2i2 second gen) didn’t have volume control to balance relative mix of instrument to computer audio. It was just on or off.

It’s much more convenient on the SSL 2 and on any other interfaces where you can adjust the relative levels without having to mess about in the DAW as well.

 

[silky smoove]

Yes, it had direct monitoring, but the one I had (2i2 second gen) didn’t have volume control to balance relative mix of instrument to computer audio. It was just on or off.

Modern ones have this on the unit itself. Older ones like you’re describing could also do it, but required you to use their mixer software.

 

[LoungeLizard]

This occurs because you’re trying to exceed 0dbfs on either the channel or the 2buss. The solution is a better understanding of mix processes.

This occurs because you’re clipping the converter in your interface and sending it a signal that exceeds 0dbfs. If you’re getting it to clip, it doesn’t get any louder.

If you’re already clipping the front end of your Scarlett, what good would adding more gain do?

I have done some reading on the topic since posting, do you have any recommended channels or articles?

I agree with the person above that recording bass straight in is simple and eliminates all of these issues. There are a LOT of free, high quality ampeg amp sim vsts out there and even better paid ones and you’ll never be able to tell the difference in a recording.

That said, I have some ideas about your situation:

1) The obvious one is, did you check the battery in your bass?

2) you have a lot of gain stages working here. There’s the one in your bass, then the pf500, then the Scarlett, and finally the DAW. Have you tried using the bass passive in this setup? If so, how did that sound?

3) Are you cranking the onboard preamp and then also tweaking the pf500? If so, you might be overloading things… too much high and/or low frequencies

I did change out the batteries to be safe, and I did try passive. It's clear I'm not understanding gain staging. So far from what I'm reading online, I should be shooting to cap out at around -6db, and after the part is recorded, play with the volume. I just don't understand how I go about staging properly. Where do I start in the chain..
Do you have any suggestions regarding amp sims free or paid? I'm on a MAC with ARM processor, so software has been tricky for me. I found the ampeg suite plugin has a 15 day trial, so I'm trying that out.

Raising bass track volume in DAW should not produce clipping, unless the recorded sound had already clipped, or there are other tracks in the DAW that you should turn down the levels.
Raise gain on scarlet should not clip if you don’t put too much gain and watch out on the clip light.
The compressor on the amp is popping, don’t use it.

If you are comparing the raw bass loudness to a commercial mix, it’s sure to be on the soft side, even if you had use the optimum gain level into the audio interface. A compressor in the DAW would help you trim the peaks and raised the softer notes up so it sounds louder.

Regarding the clip light; let's say my bass is passive, should I ignore the daw at first, and make sure the signal from my bass to my amp to my interface isn't blinking on the interface, and THEN play with the gain in the DAW?

 

[Chris Chong]

I have done some reading on the topic since posting, do you have any recommended channels or articles?


I did change out the batteries to be safe, and I did try passive. It's clear I'm not understanding gain staging. So far from what I'm reading online, I should be shooting to cap out at around -6db, and after the part is recorded, play with the volume. I just don't understand how I go about staging properly. Where do I start in the chain..
Do you have any suggestions regarding amp sims free or paid? I'm on a MAC with ARM processor, so software has been tricky for me. I found the ampeg suite plugin has a 15 day trial, so I'm trying that out.


Regarding the clip light; let's say my bass is passive, should I ignore the daw at first, and make sure the signal from my bass to my amp to my interface isn't blinking on the interface, and THEN play with the gain in the DAW?

You should ensure no clipping at the audio interface, then check the levels in DAW.

other audio interface provide a clear input level metering, and some even have auto gain function.

See 1:40 for setting gain level

 

[tothemax]

This video might be helpful. Just in case I missed something, when I'm recording direct I tend to use headphones rather than monitors. The rule I go by is to get the best raw recording possible, mix of bass volume and gain on the USB, good volume no clipping. Before I touch any settings on my DAW (gain, effects, etc...). Once I'm pleased with my raw sound, I'll start on my DAW settings. In the DAW I won't record with any effects. Get the track recorded, then play with it. This guy Mike is pretty thorough, he used to focus on Cakewalk - but he also works on recording basics as well.

Cheers, and good luck,

​

 

[Bob_Ross]

I can't seem to raise my volume in a way that sounds good when recording.

Lots of good advice in this thread already re: gain staging and setting levels in your DAW and the interface/converter...but the OP makes me wonder: Is the issue that you can't get enough level on your bass going in -- and, if so, what makes you think that? -- or is the issue that you can't get enough level on your bass coming out (i.e., the bass is too quiet on playback)?

And, at the risk of overstating the obvious: If the issue is the latter, you may just need to look at the monitor volume level and/or the DAW's mixer faders.

Come to think of it, that could also address the former issue.

 

[cheapbasslovin]

Lots of good advice in this thread already re: gain staging and setting levels in your DAW and the interface/converter...but the OP makes me wonder: Is the issue that you can't get enough level on your bass going in -- and, if so, what makes you think that? -- or is the issue that you can't get enough level on your bass coming out (i.e., the bass is too quiet on playback)?

And, at the risk of overstating the obvious: If the issue is the latter, you may just need to look at the monitor volume level and/or the DAW's mixer faders.

Come to think of it, that could also address the former issue.

I just want to reiterate this. You say the volume is too low, but if you have clipping then it can't get any higher (unless you've pegged one stage and have vast amount of headroom on another).

What's not loud enough?

 

[meisi]

Surprised nobody said check your cables yet.

I’ve had failing connectors attenuate a signal pretty significantly.

Tap on all the connectors and see if you can trigger any noise. Yank the offending cables and label them as bad.

9/10 my signal chain issues have been bad cables.