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Luthier School

E

ETEcarmine

Jun 29, 2005
360
0
NYC
www.myspace.com
#1
I was wondering if anyone knew any lutherie schools. In a google search, this seemed like the best thing I found:

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Other than that, does anyone have any suggestions? Maybe apprenticeships? That would only work is there is anyone in Brooklyn willing to take apprentices.

Looking forward to your feedback.
 
#3
Another to consider is Roberto-Venn. I just graduated from there on Friday, and I'm actually going to be sticking around as a Workshop Assistant at the school. It's a 5 month course covering repair and building, you build one acoustic and one electric (the electric can be a guitar or bass) and if you're doing well enough you can start a 3rd instrument.

They have a lot of instructors and these guys really know their stuff. It's intense, Monday-Friday from 8AM-6PM, but it's really a joy if this is the right thing for you. Feel free to PM me with any other questions you might have.

Invalid Link Removed (You can see my guitars in the student galleries now, Fall '06 :])
 
#4
Ray, very nice design on the headstock and electric body, but what, no bass? :D Thanks for the info there.

My only problem is that I wouldn't be able to distinguish what would make one school or program better than another. What would be considered the "Ivy League" lutherie schools? Is there any sort of national ranking on something like this?
 
#5
Well I'm not quite sure... I'm pretty sure there's no national ranking or anything because there are only a few luthiery schools that I know of.

What appealed to me was how much Roberto-Venn covered. You learn all about acoustics, electric, basses, and the repair of them all too.

Another big thing that I liked was just the networking. Like I said there are a bunch of instructors and a couple of them have been doing it for 23+ years. The electric guitar instructor Kris Olsen is the placement director, and he knows somebody at just about every company you could think of. If he hasn't been in touch with them already he knows how to and he's great at helping you get your foot in the door. You can check out a list of some of the places graduates have worked here

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

You also get some other cool opportunities, like guest speakers and stuff. They offer an amp course where you build your own tube amp and learn a ton about the theory behind it all, I took that and man is that cool. It's taught by Jim Kramer and he's one of the nicest guys I've ever met, as well as the smartest... the guy is a brain!!!! They also had a mandolin course with Rick Turner for the first time this year... it went a little rough just because it was the first time and we only had 2 days... but they're working on improving that.

One of the COOLEST things was Frank Ford came in for 2 days. I don't know if you've heard of Frank, but he's pretty much THE MAN when it comes to guitar repair. He works at Gryphon Stringed Instruments (a very high-end acoustic store in Cali) and runs frets.com (check this place out!). He came in an re-set a neck on a 1930's Martin, then the next day did a complete fret job on it (with absolutely no buzzes or anything) in just under an hour and 25 minutes... WHILE talking to us and answering questions the whole time!!!

It's a well equipped shop, so while there can be some waiting around for tools there isn't much... and there shouldn't be any if you're smart. You can always be doing something. (Total of 5 band saws, 5 drill presses, 4 disc sanders, 4 edge sanders... you get the idea.)

The class size is pretty cool too, it averages around 30-35 guys I think (there's a girl every so often... wasn't one in my class. It's gotta be rough for a girl in there though!!!). In the beginning it's pretty awkward of course, but I can tell you from the experience that by the end you're seriously one big family. Graduation day is a sad one, but my class put together a contact info. sheet so we'll all be able to keep in touch. It's really a brotherhood that you'll have the rest of your life.


Wow, I yapped way too much. Sorry! I'm hoping to stick around RV a while (as an instructor if I get lucky) so if you end up coming maybe I'll still be here :)

P.S. - Thanks for the compliments on the design. And I didn't build a bass because... shhh.... I'm not a bass player!!! :hiding:
 
#6
Ivy League? Sounds like you are looking for guys in turtlenecks, and crested blazers going over he finer points of routing, and carving. Luthiery School is a "Trade School" not defined by caste/class of people. Bryan Galloup's school is very intensive, attention driven concept with very small classes. A lot of one on one. Roberto Venn is also. There are many schools of Luthiery. Your best bet is to look in the classified secions of Bass Player, Guitar Player and such magazins, as they do advertise frequently. Galloup and Venn are the most commonly referred.
 
#7
Nah dude, I'm not into snobbery or being in an elitist group. I just want to know that if I am going to invest my time and money into something, I'm going to learn from the best. I'm sure building guitars makes you very happy and you always want to build the best instrument you can, so you can understand why I'm looking for the best schools around.

With that, thanks a lot for your input. I'm glad to know that I'm looking in the right places.

Ray, I'm feeding off your excitement. I have a lot to think about. Thanks for your response and for introducing me to this school.

Once again thanks to al TBers. This place is a wonderful source of knowledge and advice.
 
#8
ETEcarmine said:
I was wondering if anyone knew any lutherie schools. <SNIP>
Click to expand...

Among the courses offered in our cabinet & furniture technology program are semester-length courses on acoustic guitar making, which are taught by Jack Stone. We are located in San Marcos, CA (between Escondido and Oceanside on highway 78 in northern San Diego County).

www.palomar.edu/woodworking
 
#9
Hey Carmine......really it was meant as a joke.....LOL

As for the schools....I would pick RV for 1 main reason.....Tempe, Arizona....Arizona State University, great place to have fun, and learn at the same time. Although I think very Highly of Bryan Galloup and he could teach you everything correctly, Grand Rapids(45 miles north of me) is sort of a lame town. Maricopa County(Poenix/Mesa/Tempe/Scottsdale....where I used to live) is a great place.
 
#10
Musiclogic said:
As for the schools....I would pick RV for 1 main reason.....Tempe, Arizona....Arizona State University, great place to have fun, and learn at the same time.
Click to expand...

+1

I will admit the school itself isn't in a great part of town, but man I live in Tempe (15 minute drive from school) and I'm a few blocks down from Mill Ave. which is pretty much THE college street. ASU is right there. Awesome for meeting people. I haven't gotten to explore a ton (mainly because I was in school, after a 6 day 60 hour school week you can feel kinda beat) but I'm looking forward to getting around more. And man, it's only a 4 hour drive from the Grand Canyon, if you come here you really have to take a weekend and go see it.

Plus, ASU is consistently voted as having some of the most beautiful women anywhere... and I can definitely put in another vote for that. Plus, the weather is amazing. I mean it's Feb. 7th and it was 81 degrees today. I'm from NY so this is just ridiculous to me, but I can't complain! And the girls dress for the weather :)
 
#11
Wait til Summer Ray....LMFAO 110, 115, 120.........thank god for A/C......Grand canyon is cool but this time of year, it's golfcourse at 7 am, play 18, pack up, and at Snowbowl in Flag by 2 pm skiing....woooohooooo.....I wasted many a winter weekend this way...LMAO
 
#12
Ray Holt said:
One of the COOLEST things was Frank Ford came in for 2 days. I don't know if you've heard of Frank, but he's pretty much THE MAN when it comes to guitar repair. He works at Gryphon Stringed Instruments (a very high-end acoustic store in Cali) and runs frets.com (check this place out!).
Click to expand...

Ever been to Gryphon? They have some cool stuff (read: WAY overpriced, but get away with it because it's silicon valley), but I wouldn't call their operation very high-end, despite what the website makes it seem. I live 30 seconds from the shop.

ETE, why not just try for an apprenticeship? You might be able to land a position with someone if you can demonstrate that you are mechanically inclined. If you aren't...going to lutherie school won't help, and it's not going to be for you.

I would say avoid it and see if you can get an apprenticeship with an acoustic or classical guitar maker. Spend a few years there, as if you can build an acoustic you can build a solid body electric. Electronics are not hard to learn, and you'll probably come by enough that you'll learn that quickly as well. You'll never get as much attention in a school no matter what they say, even if your projects aren't initially so varied.

If it were me, and the options were 6 months in a school building two instruments (and paying for your learning) vs. 6 months apprenticeship in the work place getting paid, learning with paying customers instruments, I'd know what I'd pick. Especially given that you'll probably have to unlearn a bunch of overly-otherdox techniques they'll teach to maintain higher safety (read: lower insurance costs) standard that are too slow for real world business.
 
#15
Even that isn't totally true- they only have a few, and then the store is cluttered up with a bunch of midrange junk. Lots of cool stuff, but lots of crap in there as well. All you ever hear there are freaking banjo players, too!!! Sonoma Valley Music up here has some pretty serious acoustics, too, although for some reason they have a bunch of $20,000 acoustics....and jay turser electrics?!

Man, the Arizona heat is reason enough to go after an apprenticeship!
 
#16
Klein's shop has the dopest acoustics. :)

Phoenix is hot, I can testify to that... 112 degrees and carving a neck out in the heat, I lost weight going to RV for sure.

If I were you I would sit down and figure out my goals and then see what plan fits that best. Around here even with a ton of experience apprenticeships are basically non-existent. The ones that are around are either no pay, or YOU pay to learn there. Looks like you get to build an archtop at the full Galloup program now, they must have grown a lot since I researched schools a few years back. That would be some great knowledge I wish I had for the future.

RV was a great experience for me but if you are easily tempted I would avoid it. Some of the guys I went to school with partied a little too hard and probably didn't get their full money's worth out of school. For that and the heat I would probably at least consider some other options now if I had the choice, but hindsight is 20/20!
 
#17
As some of you are aware, I ran production, and the custom shops for few major guitar companies down the years. I have mixed feelings about luthiery trade schools. I can tell you that I hired quite a few ex RV students that didn`t work out so well.

RV is a great school for learning the fundementals of Luthiery, but does not make oneself a certified Luthier upon graduation.
The majority of students that I hired had a false sense of confidence and had problems adapting to production settings of a large volume shop. The biggest issue we had with some of RV students was they fealt they were professional Luthiers after building only two guitars in the school.
Of the 100 students I hired, only about 25% of them worked out.

I can`t tell you how many times I heard....."why are you doing it this way?......at RV we did it this way".

I`m not bagging on RV or their students in any way.
They are as mentioned before, a great introduction to the fundementals of Luthiery. There is alot more to be learned afterwards.
 
#18
msherman said:
As some of you are aware, I ran production, and the custom shops for few major guitar companies down the years. I have mixed feelings about luthiery trade schools. I can tell you that I hired quite a few ex RV students that didn`t work out so well.

RV is a great school for learning the fundementals of Luthiery, but does not make oneself a certified Luthier upon graduation.
The majority of students that I hired had a false sense of confidence and had problems adapting to production settings of a large volume shop. The biggest issue we had with some of RV students was they fealt they were professional Luthiers after building only two guitars in the school.
Of the 100 students I hired, only about 25% of them worked out.

I can`t tell you how many times I heard....."why are you doing it this way?......at RV we did it this way".

I`m not bagging on RV or their students in any way.
They are as mentioned before, a great introduction to the fundementals of Luthiery. There is alot more to be learned afterwards.
Click to expand...

They try to pound that into our heads at RV. Kris always says "When you go to work for someone else the best thing to do is just shut up and learn what they're teaching you." "You don't know everything just because you built two guitars.." basically trying to counter everything you just pointed out.

It's tough though. A lot of the guys who go to RV aren't very good students at all. There for the wrong reasons etc. We're trying to figure out a good way to make it harder to get in, to get better students in and put better students out. Trying to avoid situations like you've described.

On the other hand, Ken Smith now pretty much hires ONLY RV grads. One of them is heading the electric dept. for Collings after just graduating last year... another is building $15,000 mandos at Collings after graduating just last year. A good portion of the Santa Cruz Guitar Company's shop is RV grads. They're all over the place!

You only get out of it what you put in.
 
#19
I don't think Mike is saying that they didn't get enough out of RV (or didn't put enough effort in, etc), but rather that they thought they got a lot more out of it than they actually did.

I'm curious to see how they would increase the entrance standards on a trade school, honestly- how does one judge somoene ability to build/repair instruments before they learn how? It's different than with a standard academic school, because you judge entrance based on previous academics, and here it's unlikely that there is anything to judge them on. If you make it required for them to have lutherie experience before going to school...nobody will go to the school, because why would they need to? That's a fine line to cross.
 
#20
Angus, you're right, it'd be hard. We would never require them to have luthiery experience before they came. Maybe just try to find ways to weed out the people who are doing it "just because it would be cool", and find people who are really going to be dedicated.

It's not so much about the ability you have coming in, but the attitude and desire you have. There were guys in my class who were late like 19 days in a row!!! Just try to avoid people like that.

Oh, and the "You only get out of it what you put it" was aimed more at life in general, at RV plus whatever job you go onto afterwards.
 

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