M-Audio Air/Pro Tools First - I feel duped!!

[KCBass434]

Heads-up for anyone thinking about purchasing the above recording set up. Pro Tools First is no longer available (at least not as a new, free, download with M-Audio/Focusrite interface products).

I just started a remote collab with my buddy in the south of England - he wanted me to put down some bass on his new project. I've recorded in- person with him previously but never remotely (I've recently moved to Canada). As he is already using Pro Tools with his set up, we thought it would be a good idea if I got an interface that was offering a free download of the same software...
Upon receiving the interface and registering it online, it wasn't possible to download the PT software package due to "technical problems", but a free 30-day trial of there premium software was available to download, while they were working on fixing the problem. In the meantime, I downloaded the free trial software and we were ready to go.
Meanwhile, I registered a complaint both with M-Audio and on AVIDs support community websites and discover that this has been an issue for several users in the same predicament. So far, neither company has been in direct contact with me to offer a resolution.

The latest response from AVID on their forum is, and I quote: "You can rent Pro tools for $34.99 monthly to finish your project. Perhaps not a perfect solution for you, but something to think about."

Audacity - here I come!!

For those interested, here's a link to the forum discussion: Pro Tools | First - Not available after registration - Page 2 - Avid Pro Audio Community

 

[Basslice]

Yeah, this is a problem with bundles and such. If a company decides to discontinue an offering that another company is advertising as part of a bundle, what do you (and they) do?

As far as I know, Avid has discontinued Pro Tools First. Offers change. For example, Focusrite now offers things like the Brainworx bx_console Focusrite SC plugin which I bought. I'd love to get that money back, but I cannot get the new bundles that weren't offered when I bought my new interface a couple of months ago. Not that I expect it either. It is what it is.

If you bought the product and you can show that Pro Tools First was bundled when you bought it, you should have every right to a refund if you want it. Where did you buy it?

For the record, I am a very satisfied Pro Tools (Full) paying subscriber. I think it is great. I tried Pro Tools First before I bought the real product and "First" sucked for many reasons - most free-hobbled software sucks. That is probably why they ditched it. FYI, there are also dark parts of the web where hacked products are available if you really feel wronged and think you are owed something and are trapped by the various companies alleged misdealings. These things are not hard to find but it is theft of product/services...

If I were you I would probably keep the interface and rework the project into Reaper if you cannot afford or do not like Pro Tools offerings.

 

[KCBass434]

Thanks @Basslice (great handle btw)

I bought the interface on Amazon and it's doing what it's supposed to. Can't be bothered with the hassle of returning - I still need the software no matter which interface I use. I understand that these bundles don't last forever, it's just that this was advertised as part of the package and is still being marketed today as such, hence the heads up for other newbies just starting out...

PS: I'm already plugged into Audacity and its working fine, so far. Is Reaper more compatible for sharing/integrating with PT?

 

[Basslice]

Thanks @Basslice (great handle btw)

I bought the interface on Amazon and it's doing what it's supposed to. Can't be bothered with the hassle of returning - I still need the software no matter which interface I use. I understand that these bundles don't last forever, it's just that this was advertised as part of the package and is still being marketed today as such, hence the heads up for other newbies just starting out...

PS: I'm already plugged into Audacity and its working fine, so far. Is Reaper more compatible for sharing/integrating with PT?

I have installed Reaper and tried it (only total demo time ~5 hours). I decided to make a choice to learn one DAW and spend my time there. My choice was Pro Tools. I think Reaper can do most of the things that PT can. After a couple of solid years of PT under my belt, I am getting pretty ok, still learning though. In fact, I could probably do a lot with Reaper now that I have a firm grasp of using a DAW.

I don't do collaborations (yet). I know I could do it with PT and Reaper - probably most DAWs

I don't know much about Audacity. You should do some searching on it. I have read some things that would concern me.

p.s. Basslice is my conjunction of Bass & Slice - not Bass and Lice. Slice was a nickname of mine 30-something years ago. In the end I am fine if people read it either way!

 

[AceOfBassFace]

Thanks @Basslice (great handle btw)

I bought the interface on Amazon and it's doing what it's supposed to. Can't be bothered with the hassle of returning - I still need the software no matter which interface I use. I understand that these bundles don't last forever, it's just that this was advertised as part of the package and is still being marketed today as such, hence the heads up for other newbies just starting out...

PS: I'm already plugged into Audacity and its working fine, so far. Is Reaper more compatible for sharing/integrating with PT?

Different DAWs aren't compatible – you can't just load up a ProTools project in Reaper for example. However, what you can do is copy the stems over into another DAW and then rebuild your tracks. You'd have to start over with plugins/ effects etc. unfortunately. Not ideal but can get the job done.

Reaper is really great BTW - many pros use it and prefer it over ProTools. For what it's worth, I installed ProTools First last year on my PC and it was a really painful process to get it working - took me the better part of a day. I thought I might use it for the free plugins it came with, which ended up being nothing special. I used it a couple of times and then uninstalled.

 

[silky smoove]

However, what you can do is copy the stems over into another DAW and then rebuild your tracks. You'd have to start over with plugins/ effects etc. unfortunately.

Nomenclature correction: If you're rebuilding tracks and starting over with plugins you're describing multitrack files, not stems.

 

[Basslice]

If someone was early on and wanted to switch DAWs like the OP, this is the time to do it! And @AceOfBassFace is correct that you cannot simply import one format-specific file into another program. But you can bounce tracks or start over with your original sound files.

This is why I recommend people that are starting (like me a few years ago) to pick a DAW and stick with it. I bought my first interface like 10 years ago, but it sat unused for a long time because I was unwilling to commit to learning how to use it. That finally changed a few years ago and I am cruising along.

My other advice is to not use freebie software that is not fully 100% functional, feature-limited, or time-limited. (soundpacks, "First" or "lite" or "intro" version of things). Talk to people, make some informed choices and save your time, and energy (and money in the long run).

 

[tothemax]

You might want to take a look at Cakewalk by Band lab. It is free, fully functional, and has a pretty decent "How to" community on YouTube. I've been pleased with it. Not sure if there is any compatibility with PT.
It does have the built in capability to share tracks online.

Good luck...

 

[DirtDog]

Your only real point of compatibility is the import and export of WAV or FLAC files from any one software package to another. Even if both parties had the same version of software installed on two different machines there will be project level compatibility issues when it comes to file folder location and plugins installed.

Best to work by passing your raw audio files back and forth.

I do the same type of thing with my group. I have the BL send me a stereo mixdown of the recording sans bass; I bring that into my DAW, record a new bass track and send that audio file back to him. I’ll often record an effected track and a dry track and send both. Then he does the final mix. He works in Ardour, I work in Logic Pro.

Ensure that your audio file sample rate and bit depth is consistent (eg 44.1K, 16-bit…or whatever you decide upon) across the project.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Yeah, this is a problem with bundles and such. If a company decides to discontinue an offering that another company is advertising as part of a bundle, what do you (and they) do?

As far as I know, Avid has discontinued Pro Tools First. Offers change. For example, Focusrite now offers things like the Brainworx bx_console Focusrite SC plugin which I bought. I'd love to get that money back, but I cannot get the new bundles that weren't offered when I bought my new interface a couple of months ago. Not that I expect it either. It is what it is.

If you bought the product and you can show that Pro Tools First was bundled when you bought it, you should have every right to a refund if you want it. Where did you buy it?

For the record, I am a very satisfied Pro Tools (Full) paying subscriber. I think it is great. I tried Pro Tools First before I bought the real product and "First" sucked for many reasons - most free-hobbled software sucks. That is probably why they ditched it. FYI, there are also dark parts of the web where hacked products are available if you really feel wronged and think you are owed something and are trapped by the various companies alleged misdealings. These things are not hard to find but it is theft of product/services...

If I were you I would probably keep the interface and rework the project into Reaper if you cannot afford or do not like Pro Tools offerings.

Marketing partners are wonderful while they are partners. When presented with a marketing partnership, I always ask how long are they going to remain partners. For instance, Spectrum is offering a cell phone plan as a marketing partner with Verizon to use their unused cellular system capacity. With this arrangement Spectrum undercut the price Verizon charges by as much 50%.

Now, I’ve been a Verizon customer for almost 20 years and their cellular service is second to none. So I ask the Spectrum sales guy, “So how long is your partnership good for?” Of course he didn’t know and said nobody has ever asked him that question before. So I asked another question. “What happens to me and my service if this this partnership is terminated?” Again no meaningful answer, so I thanked him for his information along with a request to be on their No-contact list.

 

[KCBass434]

Marketing partners are wonderful while they are partners. When presented with a marketing partnership, I always ask how long are they going to remain partners. For instance, Spectrum is offering a cell phone plan as a marketing partner with Verizon to use their unused cellular system capacity. With this arrangement Spectrum undercut the price Verizon charges by as much 50%.

Now, I’ve been a Verizon customer for almost 20 years and their cellular service is second to none. So I ask the Spectrum sales guy, “So how long is your partnership good for?” Of course he didn’t know and said nobody has ever asked him that question before. So I asked another question. “What happens to me and my service if this this partnership is terminated?” Again no meaningful answer, so I thanked him for his information along with a request to be on their No-contact list.

In my humble opinion, both PT and M-Audio could do a better job of product management and customer service...

 

[BAG]

Audacity - here I come!!

Unless Audacity has improved dramatically over the last few years I'd definitely go with Reaper instead.

Nomenclature correction: If you're rebuilding tracks and starting over with plugins you're describing multitrack files, not stems.

Hey Silky, when needing to move between different DAW's for remote collaborating what would be your recommended way of doing things. For instance, if I were not the originator/mixer would it be best to just get an MP3 from the other person, record my bass track/s to that and send them to the other person as wav files?

 

[dbsfgyd1]

In my humble opinion, both PT and M-Audio could do a better job of product management and customer service...

So could lot of firms. I wouldn’t know about PT and M-Audio. I have Cubasis and a Steinberg UR12… Two separate entities with no partnership, and no problems.

 

[silky smoove]

Hey Silky, when needing to move between different DAW's for remote collaborating what would be your recommended way of doing things. For instance, if I were not the originator/mixer would it be best to just get an MP3 from the other person, record my bass track/s to that and send them to the other person as wav files?

I'm super old school in that regard. If I'm the originator I export either multitrack WAV files, stems or a rough mix (depending on the needs of the person I'm sending the reference material to) and stick them in a Dropbox folder. I include a text file that clearly states the file bit depth, sample rate, tempo or tempo map if applicable, time signature or time signature map if applicable, and any notes that the person on the other end will need to record their parts remotely. If I have production notes beyond the technical requirements (i.e. record your guitar with a clean DI, a dynamic mic on the grill and a ribbon mic back in the room, or sing very close to the mic for lots of proximity effect and an intimate sound, etc.), then I'll include those in the text file as well. I then send them a link to that folder and instruct them to read the text file before doing anything with the WAVs. There are better programs for file transfer these days, but Dropbox is free with enough storage at that level to do some basic file transfers without issue.

If I'm not the originator and am just a session player I'll request all of that from the originator. If they can't answer my questions right away it usually leads to them having a better understanding of their session and/or DAW so it becomes mutually beneficial.

Regarding MP3s as reference material; This can be tricky. I try to avoid MP3s for tracking references as I've seen a lot of crazy things with that particular format. Any lossy format has the potential to use variable sample rates and other trickery to keep file sizes down. If the sample rate is not constant or uses a different standard you can end up with sample rate drift when you deliver your part back to the originator. They'll think you were just super sloppy and loose, even if you were killing it on the track. I prefer something predictable like a rough mix in WAV format, stems of logically grouped/processed instrumentation and/or vocals, or if the track count isn't super high a full multitrack in WAV format. If there's a ton of tracks in a session, like a modern pop production with 60+ tracks then just give me a rough or 4-5 stems.

 

[KCBass434]

p.s. Basslice is my conjunction of Bass & Slice [/QUOTE]
Actually that was how I read it...probably the (bad) golfer in me

 

[BAG]

I'm super old school in that regard. If I'm the originator I export either multitrack WAV files, stems or a rough mix (depending on the needs of the person I'm sending the reference material to) and stick them in a Dropbox folder. I include a text file that clearly states the file bit depth, sample rate, tempo or tempo map if applicable, time signature or time signature map if applicable, and any notes that the person on the other end will need to record their parts remotely. If I have production notes beyond the technical requirements (i.e. record your guitar with a clean DI, a dynamic mic on the grill and a ribbon mic back in the room, or sing very close to the mic for lots of proximity effect and an intimate sound, etc.), then I'll include those in the text file as well. I then send them a link to that folder and instruct them to read the text file before doing anything with the WAVs. There are better programs for file transfer these days, but Dropbox is free with enough storage at that level to do some basic file transfers without issue.

If I'm not the originator and am just a session player I'll request all of that from the originator. If they can't answer my questions right away it usually leads to them having a better understanding of their session and/or DAW so it becomes mutually beneficial.

Regarding MP3s as reference material; This can be tricky. I try to avoid MP3s for tracking references as I've seen a lot of crazy things with that particular format. Any lossy format has the potential to use variable sample rates and other trickery to keep file sizes down. If the sample rate is not constant or uses a different standard you can end up with sample rate drift when you deliver your part back to the originator. They'll think you were just super sloppy and loose, even if you were killing it on the track. I prefer something predictable like a rough mix in WAV format, stems of logically grouped/processed instrumentation and/or vocals, or if the track count isn't super high a full multitrack in WAV format. If there's a ton of tracks in a session, like a modern pop production with 60+ tracks then just give me a rough or 4-5 stems.

Thanks so much for the detailed reply.

 

[Engle]

25943212[/URL], member: 262910"]Unless Audacity has improved dramatically over the last few years I'd definitely go with Reaper instead.



Hey Silky, when needing to move between different DAW's for remote collaborating what would be your recommended way of doing things. For instance, if I were not the originator/mixer would it be best to just get an MP3 from the other person, record my bass track/s to that and send them to the other person as wav files?

I’ve done that many times except I ask for wavs rather than mp3s. As @silky smoove says, you want to know what sample rate/how many bits the other person is using so you can send them files that match their project.

 

[Fernando Costa]

Forget Pro Tools, forget AVID, they're useless, their focus is big studios and projects, ATMOS, these things, they never cared about consumers. I have a perpetual license of Pro Tools, and I use Logic Pro because it's better, and I never needed Apple support, just that.

 

[GWGuitar]

I have installed Reaper and tried it (only total demo time ~5 hours). I decided to make a choice to learn one DAW and spend my time there. My choice was Pro Tools. I think Reaper can do most of the things that PT can. After a couple of solid years of PT under my belt, I am getting pretty ok, still learning though. In fact, I could probably do a lot with Reaper now that I have a firm grasp of using a DAW.

I don't do collaborations (yet). I know I could do it with PT and Reaper - probably most DAWs

I don't know much about Audacity. You should do some searching on it. I have read some things that would concern me.

p.s. Basslice is my conjunction of Bass & Slice - not Bass and Lice. Slice was a nickname of mine 30-something years ago. In the end I am fine if people read it either way!

I have used Reaper for the past few years. I am getting the best recordings ever. It is easy to use. The stock plug-ins are great. You can try it out for free as long as you want, but it is really worth paying for.

 

[LowActionHero]

I'm still in the beginning stages of learning Reaper, but chose it after much research that led me to believe it's very much on par with all the big names, free to try extensively, and VERY affordable, and compatible. And I also didn't want to try to learn more than one DAW.