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Mahler 4 Mov. 1

Discussion in 'Music [DB]' started by DallasCarpenter, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. DallasCarpenter


    Feb 8, 2019
    My school is currently rehearsing Mahler’s 4th symphony. In the first movement Mahler writes out something that is very ambiguous. 3 measures after rehearsal 15 our part is written in tenor clef but over this line he writes “Klingt eine octave tiefer” which translates to “Sounds an octave lower”. Should this be interpreted as the bass section playing what is written one octave lower? Or is it commonly played in our actual tenor clef range? Our school’s bass teacher was unsure which to choose as is our orchestra’s conductor. Thanks for reading.
  2. Pacman

    Pacman Layin' Down Time Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 1, 2000
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
    You're going to get a lot more response to this on the DB side, where just about everybody knows who Mahler was. Moving this thread there now.
  3. Anne Millington

    Anne Millington

    Dec 16, 2017
  4. Anne Millington

    Anne Millington

    Dec 16, 2017
    I would interpret this as sounding an octave lower than written, only because it keeps the line in the same register as the whole rest of the movement. But as to why he wrote it that way?? Maybe some autography trick to make the notes fit better on the staff/page?

    Dvorak and some others wrote cello parts in treble clef that were intended to sound an otave lower. This is the horrid "false treble clef." About False Treble Clef

    I never heard of it for bass though!
  5. wathaet


    May 27, 2007
    That passage is to be played as written, i.e. up the G string, but sounding, as usual, an octave down. In in other words, not suono reale.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
    Lee Moses likes this.
  6. Co.


    Sep 10, 2006
    Sperger wrote a lot of his soloistic double bass music in false treble clef, transposing two octaves down. But I have never seen it in modern editions.
    Anne Millington likes this.
  7. wathaet


    May 27, 2007
    And that is not what this is.
  8. neilG


    Jun 15, 2003
    Ventura, CA
    A lot of that Viennese violone music was written that way, including Mozart's "Per Questa". It's most likely a carry-over from viol music. A lot of viola da gamba music was written in the octave treble clef, meant to be played an octave lower. It may have been easier for the composers, or possibly for other instrumentalists to play the gamba without having to learn alto clef. I have no idea why it would persist for the solo violone/DB. Maybe just tradition.

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