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Major Mode Interchangeability

#23
BrianNYC said:
Modal interchange is the borrowing of chords from a different scale based on the tonic or root of the key you are in. For instance when in C major you use an F min instead of F. Very common on the IV chord in major scales in many songs, even immediately following the corresponding major chord. Check out creep by radio head for a good example of the IV to iv change.
C
"Youre just like an angel...your skin makes
Cmin
me cry....." That's a IV to iv in G

This has been going in since the baroque period.

What you described is not exactly interchange because all of your C modes fit into the corresponding tonic scale
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I didnt know "modal interchange " already had a definition. I just used that term to describe a method to compare scales.
 
#24
SteveCS said:
Most people learn about modes by reference to a given major scale. Here we are looking back from the other side of the relationship. That's it. I think this is more relevant to fingering patterns than actual music. YMMV
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There are more thorough treatments that relate modes to the minor forms. Too much for my little pea brain to hold, but perhaps there are geniuses, or perhaps savants, that find the concept useful. I have a cheat sheet that I developed and used for awhile...now my fluency in even basic modal thought is totally shot.

I have studied modes primarily in relation to major and natural minor keys, so that I may have a better understanding of the key signatures. Also, some of the music I have performed over the years is modal, so it helps to know the shapes of the modes cold. IMHO this is a fairly daunting task...at least for me it is.

At one time, I was trying to maintain fluency by relating the modes to their relative major and also their parallel major and natural minor shapes. For the parallel forms, I considered Ionian (pure major), Lydian (major #4), Mixolydian (major b7), Dorian (natural minor #6), Phrygian (natural minor b2), Aeolian (pure natural minor), and Locrian (natural minor b2, b5). Perhaps this is a stupid way to do it...but I believe if you learn how to do things multiple ways you have a better chance of understanding and remembering.

Sometimes harmonic analysis involves modal interchange (as defined in post #13)...sometimes the analysis seems to make the most sense if a chord is borrowed from a mode rather than a major or minor key. I believe this would define the borrowed chord as nonfunctional.

I think I'll leave now :bag:.
 
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#25
Wasnex said:
There are more thorough treatments that relate modes to the minor forms. Too much for my little pea brain to hold, but perhaps there are geniuses, or perhaps savants, that find the concept useful. I have a cheat sheet that I developed and used for awhile...now my fluency in even basic modal thought is totally shot.

I have studied modes primarily in relation to major and natural minor keys, so that I may have a better understanding of the key signatures. Also, some of the music I have performed over the years is modal, so it helps to know the shapes of the modes cold. IMHO this is a fairly daunting task...at least for me it is.

At one time, I was trying to maintain fluency by relating the modes to their relative major and also their parallel major and natural minor shapes. For the parallel forms, I considered Ionian (pure major), Lydian (major #4), Mixolydian (major b7), Dorian (natural minor #6), Phrygian (natural minor b2), Aeolian (pure natural minor), and Locrian (natural minor b2, b5). Perhaps this is a stupid way to do it...but I believe if you learn how to do things multiple ways you have a better chance of understanding and remembering.

Sometimes harmonic analysis involves modal interchange (as defined in post #13)...sometimes the analysis seems to make the most sense if a chord is borrowed from a mode rather than a major or minor key. I believe this would define the borrowed chord as nonfunctional.

I think I'll leave now :bag:.
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Your paragraph 3 about relating modes to major and minor is exactly what i do.

While on the subject of do it yourself theory, I think of "outside" in terms of a number from 0 to 12. So C major to A natural minor is 0, and C major to C# major is 12.

Somewhere, there is someone with an advanced degree in music theory gathering firewood.
 
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#29
Spin Doctor said:
C is the 3rd of Ab major. OK. Yeah, it is. So?
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Maybe the OP was getting closer to Neo-Riemannian theory?

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Also from here.

An introduction to neo-Riemannian theory (9)
 
#34
JeffJ2112 said:
I do have to admit as pretty much just a bassist, some of this stuff makes my head hurt.
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Yeah... I'm pretty big on theory, but some of it drifts into the "strictly theoretical" realm and I've not found that stuff very useful for practical applications. Even if you play jazz, there are other ways to approach it that can have you playing it, rather than mainly thinking about it.
 
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