They don't bring tasers to gunfights, nor apparently to traffic stops.
You reckon cops don't debate which calibre is best for stopping badguys? And by stopping, I mean with lethal force.
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Man shot reaching for license.
- Thread starter 3506string
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You reckon cops don't debate which calibre is best for stopping badguys? And by stopping, I mean with lethal force.
Many do bring them. They're expensive though, and not 100% useful in many situations. They aren't great for shooting into open vehicle windows, due to the characteristics of the taser wires. Tasers are not usually used as a primary option in a gunfight, and they shouldn't be.
As far as caliber is concerned, I imagine that stopping power is discussed, and it should be. You take it to mean lethal, I take it to mean ending quickly.
But nobody says "shoot him to end it quickly".
If AOS is shooting (to end it quickly), it's with a highpowered rifle and the outcome is fully expected to be fatal.
If AOS is shooting (to end it quickly), it's with a highpowered rifle and the outcome is fully expected to be fatal.
They are shooting to kill and no amount of mincing words can convince me otherwise, so I'm out.
Has anyone seen the extended clip where the trooper explained what happened to his supervisor. Here's the transcript.
Having seen the video clip, can you say this account is accurate and or truthful? If not, what could be his motivation for not telling the truth? What if this video clip didn't exist?
Having seen the video clip, can you say this account is accurate and or truthful? If not, what could be his motivation for not telling the truth? What if this video clip didn't exist?
Actually, in the US, they do say it, and it's taught and reinforced in training. Sorry it's different in Australia. And as to your other post, it isn't mincing words, it simply is different here than what you experience in Australia. I'm not about to post on "how it is" in your neck of the woods, because I have no true objective baseline to make my opinion. I can tell you, however, "how it is" where I am. I'm also done talking on this particular thread, as it's been fairly heavily derailed a few times, by both me and a few others. It's gone around and around about as much as can be expected. No opinions have (or will likely be) changed, so I bid you all adieu. My apologies to the OP.
Yeah he really sprayed the scene with lead, no regard for gas station patrons behind the suspect. Or across the street. Or whatever.
Loo oo oo ser.
It doesn't matter what he was stopped for, or what he may or may not have been guilty of. His behavior once stopped put him in danger. An officer has no way to know how the person they're stopping may react. Some people stopped for trivial offenses will try to take you out. I don't like the officer's procedure, but when the guy reached back into the car he escalated this incident into a life-threatening event.
The rural county where I was a reserve deputy once stopped a guy for a taillight out and discovered he was wanted on suspicion of multiple murders. He was a little guy, but went nuts while in the shower after being booked and it took four 200+ pound deputies to hold him down and get control of him. He tried to brain one of them with a hunk of pipe he ripped off the wall in the shower.
What point are you making? The officer handled the stop badly. It was on the officer to tell the civilian to move slowly, and keep his hands visible. The officer is the professional, it is his job to set the parameters. He failed to do so, and then grossly overreacted. Every time you say how dangerous the job is, it just highlights what a bad job this officer did.
You seem to blame the man who was shot as if he should automatically know how to put a cop at ease. The man is a medical courier, not a gang member, he has not spent his life getting pulled over and searched. When I was young, I was pulled over and got out of the car before I was told. The cop told me to get back in the car and I followed his orders, this fool would have killed me for the crime of not acting like someone who has been arrested ten times.
The stop went wrong because of the cop's actions, period. That is why he was fired and arrested.
Nope. The cop could and should have done a better job, but he does not bear sole responsibility for the stop going wrong. The guy he stopped did a stupid thing which (as far as I'm concerned) looked very threatening to the cop. He bears some responsibility for that.
In a practical sense, did this guy never ever watch a TV show that included a traffic stop? How dumb/thoughtless/distracted/deluded must one be to dive back into a car in the middle of a traffic stop? I can assure you that the very least this would produce is the officer arming themselves and taking cover...and a stronger reaction is possible.
It appears that my personal experience in this regard gives me a very different viewpoint. But I have had an actor point a handgun right between my eyes during a practice traffic stop. Even in a controlled training setting, it's something no one will ever forget. And it happens as fast as the snap of your fingers. This guy thoughtlessly set himself up for something bad to happen.
When it comes to blame, the LEO has to accept the burden of responsibility.
Your attitude leads to a slippery slope where any real or imagined movement becomes a justification for a shooting. You value your experience as a cop, I know what it is like to be a black man and no matter how correct you try to be, some idiot thinks you are a gangbanger, and million other people feel it is reasonable to shoot you. It is not humanly possible to act correctly enough to pass every fool's racial Rohrshach test.
You saw a threat, I see a man who is worried to death and trying too hard to be complient. The problem is that he is at the mercy of a jumpy dimwit who failed to get proper control of a needless traffic stop. The man took off his damn seatbelt pulling into a gas station, and Barney Fyfe just couldn't leave him alone.
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I go along with parts of both Pilgrim and Cheese manifestos.
The victim moved too quickly for his own good, but afaik that isn't a crime. Neither is producing a wallet on a cop.
He should win some worthwhile damages for pain and suffering but the cop probably won't be paying much of it.
Personally I can't call the shooting of a surrendering man attempted murder, no motive, but I'm scratching my head as to what crime it is, I think here it would be called criminal negligence resulting in injury.
The victim moved too quickly for his own good, but afaik that isn't a crime. Neither is producing a wallet on a cop.
He should win some worthwhile damages for pain and suffering but the cop probably won't be paying much of it.
Personally I can't call the shooting of a surrendering man attempted murder, no motive, but I'm scratching my head as to what crime it is, I think here it would be called criminal negligence resulting in injury.
Yes, he did. And he scared this poor excuse for a police officer.
But seriously, as law enforcement professionals, isn't it the DUTY and RESPONSIBILITY of the officers in these cases to be able to recognize a weapon? Because this guy got shot going for his wallet. And in New York there was the very famous case of Amadou Diallo who was killed in similar circumstances at the hands of the NYPD. He was producing his wallet for officers when 6 police fired on him and killed him with 41 gunshots.
The stakes here are life and death. That shouldn't be understated. But those stakes are the same for both police AND the citizens that may have a police weapon drawn on them. It certainly seems that the officers involved in these deadly force incidents need to be thoroughly investigated
If he had stopped shooting once the man raised his hands, it would be criminal negligence, but shooting a man with his hands up is attempted murder.
People say that he should know better than to be nervous and move too quickly.
The cops should know, based on recent high profile shooting events, that they are under scrutiny and THEY SHOULD behave accordingly and demand compliance from behind cover, not run out spraying lead AGAIN!
Again no regard for the safety of the occupants of the two other vehicles I see at the pumps.
The cops should know, based on recent high profile shooting events, that they are under scrutiny and THEY SHOULD behave accordingly and demand compliance from behind cover, not run out spraying lead AGAIN!
Again no regard for the safety of the occupants of the two other vehicles I see at the pumps.
I really cant believe some of the comments on here.
I just watched this again a few times to be sure what I saw. The guy in the truck is already out of the vehicle because he's going to the store when the cop gets out and tells him to get his license. He by no means "dives" into the truck. Yes he turned around a LITTLE quick, but nothing violent or even slightly suspicious to me. His demeanor and body language was relaxed when the officer first approached. He turned and bent over but wasnt reaching very far... to the driver seat or dash which is not a common place for a weapon to be kept. That cop is a shaging nutjob.
by the way, it gives me a little hope in the survival of integrity among some cops that his department rather quickly fired and charged him unlike in my town where they circle the wagons, enlist other departments in the destruction of daschcam evidence that incriminates their own and deny any wrongdoing when they have a dead body on their hands. At least the cop in this video is in a dept that still has the integrity to prosecute one of their own when they are the danger to society. its a small consolation.
I just watched this again a few times to be sure what I saw. The guy in the truck is already out of the vehicle because he's going to the store when the cop gets out and tells him to get his license. He by no means "dives" into the truck. Yes he turned around a LITTLE quick, but nothing violent or even slightly suspicious to me. His demeanor and body language was relaxed when the officer first approached. He turned and bent over but wasnt reaching very far... to the driver seat or dash which is not a common place for a weapon to be kept. That cop is a shaging nutjob.
by the way, it gives me a little hope in the survival of integrity among some cops that his department rather quickly fired and charged him unlike in my town where they circle the wagons, enlist other departments in the destruction of daschcam evidence that incriminates their own and deny any wrongdoing when they have a dead body on their hands. At least the cop in this video is in a dept that still has the integrity to prosecute one of their own when they are the danger to society. its a small consolation.
Agree, 96tbird. The situation was such that the officer should have considered the field of fire and sheltered rather than opening fire. My argument is that the driver contributed to the situation. Doesn't make it right, but it doesn't put all the blame on the officer.
that "officer" is a pants peeing, loose cannon, tilt a whirl that has probably lost every game of "flinch" he ever played.
sure glad I didnt run into him the night I was involved in stopping a man in the alley from beating a woman. I had a cop walk up on me when I actually HAD a weapon in my hand that was visible. That officer was polite and reserved, and I didnt get shot.
btw Pilgrim... I had to copy your sig and post that on facebook.. thats a good one!
sure glad I didnt run into him the night I was involved in stopping a man in the alley from beating a woman. I had a cop walk up on me when I actually HAD a weapon in my hand that was visible. That officer was polite and reserved, and I didnt get shot.
btw Pilgrim... I had to copy your sig and post that on facebook.. thats a good one!
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Your reference to dead bodies is crucial because if this man had been killed, chances are that the cop's word would have been accepted with very pushback. Him living to ask why he was shot sank the cop's case.
I strongly disagree. Anytime an officer-involved shooting occurs, the incident is closely scrutinized for compliance with deadly-force protocols.
By watching the dash-cam video, a 3rd-grader could tell this was a bad shooting.
The cop would have been charged with assault regardless of whether or not the victim survived the shooting.
