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Double Bass MarkBass 2x6 isnt enough... suggestions?

krfoss

krfoss

Supporting Member
Nov 29, 2007
3,039
4,505
Orange County, CA
#1
Hi everyone,

I'm playing with a big band for the first time (pretty excited/ nervous) and doubling on upright and electric. The basses will ultimately be going DI into the system, but the band wants an amp on stage for monitoring. I brought my little 2x6, which seems to be enough for my electric to play just fine down to low B, but halfway through the rehearsal the amp started clipping and distorting making it useless to hear. My electric sounded just fine after the upright, so I dont think I completely blew the cones.

My rig is thus:
American Standard w/ full circle (threads down, if thats important)
Lakland 5502 (but who cares on this side of TB)
Both run into Bassbone OD with upright channel on +10db, and set on 10 volume. HPF set to 150Hz. Everything else basically flat, small bump in 250hz mids.
I have compressors, but both are off when running upright.
Output to MarkBass 2x6. VLE 9:00, VPF off, Volume around 2:00

I'm wondering if I need to simply get an amp with larger cones to handle the upright. I could run an addition speaker and perhaps get a 12, but I dont know if that'll solve the problem.

If I have to get a different amp, what would you recommend since I'm unlikely to be playing in situations normally this loud, and I usually play my electric.

On a side note, I was offered a paying gig being in a jazz combo after the rehearsal, which was VERY odd since I'm no pro and have a non-music day job... Exciting/ terrifying.

Thanks in advance for the guidance and wisdom of the hive mind!
 
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#2
It looks like that particular amp is a discontinued model so I can't find any specs on it, but the easiest thing would be to try an extension speaker using the head of the combo for power for situations like that. Especially if you already like the sound you're getting from that amp.
 
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#4
You might be pushing the cabinet too hard with the lows. What kind of HPF are you using?

I play through 2x10's, and there have been a few occasions when I need to cut a ton with my HPF on loud gigs. Otherwise I drive the amp into limiting and fart out the cones. I'm talking top end of my volume, and ham fisting the E string. When I get into that territory, it's usually a case of not being able to hear myself well. I'll sacrifice tone by cutting lows, and putting mids back so I can hear myself again. It doesn't sound as good as I'd like, but it gets me through.

Or....you could just go get something with more fire power. Headroom solves a lot of problems, and watts are very cheap these days.
 
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#5
It depends on what is causing the distortion that you are hearing. If you are overdriving the amp to get volume, another cabinet would add some volume through speakers and additional wattage (I think that combo is 150 @ 8 ohm and 250 @ 4 ohm). If it is purely low end distortion an HPF could help clean things up.

As for increasing driver size, I do not think that is necessarily the issue. Plenty of bassists out there happily using Phil Jones Bass cabinets (including me) with 5" drivers. Ability to achieve volume/clarity/low end depends on cabinet and driver design. Driver design extends beyond just the size of the driver. The 8" speaker in my old Peavey Microbass combo is significantly different than the 8" BG8-60 Celestions in my SWR Henry the 8x8 (cab designs are quite different between the two as well :laugh:). I do not think anyone would assume the Peavey could achieve the low end or volume of the 8x8, but people frequently assume a driver size increase leads to more bass/volume. There is simply more to it than driver size.

Personal opinion... It sounds like you could use a rig upgrade to do what you want. If you do not want to go that route, an additional cabinet/HPF might be able to get you where you want. If you decide to replace the amp, PJB is probably a good place to look. Several of the products have two channels (one for your upright and one for your electric) and they have been popular among bassists playing similar setups as you. They are also quite compact similar to your current combo.
 
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#7
Jay Corwin said:
You might be pushing the cabinet too hard with the lows. What kind of HPF are you using?

I play through 2x10's, and there have been a few occasions when I need to cut a ton with my HPF on loud gigs. Otherwise I drive the amp into limiting and fart out the cones. I'm talking top end of my volume, and ham fisting the E string. When I get into that territory, it's usually a case of not being able to hear myself well. I'll sacrifice tone by cutting lows, and putting mids back so I can hear myself again. It doesn't sound as good as I'd like, but it gets me through.

Or....you could just go get something with more fire power. Headroom solves a lot of problems, and watts are very cheap these days.
Click to expand...
The bassbone od has a built in hpf in both channels and channel 1 is designed for upright (or piezo pickups). Perhaps o need to drop the bass down on the eq? My worry would be that it would just sound tinny, but a tinny bass may be better than a farting distorted bass.
 
#8
krfoss said:
The bassbone od has a built in hpf in both channels and channel 1 is designed for upright (or piezo pickups). Perhaps o need to drop the bass down on the eq? My worry would be that it would just sound tinny, but a tinny bass may be better than a farting distorted bass.
Click to expand...

In that case, I would say that you probably just don't have enough headroom (either by watts or cabinet design) to accomplish the tone you want at the volume that you need for this gig. I'm in agreement with the others that adding a extension cabinet to get the most out your head is probably a good place to start, and won't require you to overhaul your entire setup (especially if your happy with it otherwise). If a matching extension cabinet gets you where you need to be, then you'll have a nice modular setup to cover you for both volume situations.
 
#9
Jay Corwin said:
In that case, I would say that you probably just don't have enough headroom (either by watts or cabinet design) to accomplish the tone you want at the volume that you need for this gig. I'm in agreement with the others that adding a extension cabinet to get the most out your head is probably a good place to start, and won't require you to overhaul your entire setup (especially if your happy with it otherwise). If a matching extension cabinet gets you where you need to be, then you'll have a nice modular setup to cover you for both volume situations.
Click to expand...
The cab asks for an 8ohm extension, but would you think a 10, 12, or 15? I suppose 15 would be too big, and 12 would be a decent middle ground, but extension cabs are a whole new world for me...
 
#10
Careful with your selection. You could make it sound worse. Not sure if Markbass made one, but if they have a recommended extension that is where I would start.

Two threads I recall seeing on the subject...
Mixing Cabinets and Phase Response.
Mixing Speaker Cabs - Definitive Answer!

If you do not want to read those, basically not getting the correct cabinet pairing can create some odd sonic issues. You can find pairings that work, but in general cabinets that are designed to work together tend to work together better (go figure since they designed it that way).

Edit: Briefly looked online and read that the NY604 was a recommended pairing for your combo. Mixing Cabinets and Phase Response.
 
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#12
KUNGfuSHERIFF said:
A 2x6 isn’t gonna do squat to project low end.

You need a larger-diameter speaker and more power.
Click to expand...

It really depends on the 26, its design and speaker capability. MAS 26 or two 16s have plenty of low end and would have no trouble in a big band. Yes, more power wouldn't hurt.

OP, if you want to use your MB, I'd agree with the additional cab suggestions. Go try a few and hear what happens. But first, get a high pass filter like the Fdeck.
 
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#16
When I play with a big band, I prefer a lot of watts and a lot of speaker cone area. I usually use my mini mark 3 and one cab for me and a second for the drummer plus bass in the monitor mix for the horns, piano, and singer. The bands that I play with are loud AF so I don't want to destroy my hands fighting a losing battle for more volume. A good eq/di/hpf (fishman pro platinum) is very helpful. If I'm doubling I usually have the luxury of using a second rig for the slab. If not I've used a little 4 channel mixer.

Don't fight the band or the amp, bring some firepower and be heard with good tone. Drive the band with the drummer.
 
#17
You can certainly play big band with a smaller speaker if it's the right one. I have a MAS 1/8 that I use with a 12 piece all the time the Audiokinesis 4/6 will work as well. No issues. The Markbass 2x6 wasn't really designed to be anything but a trio or duo amp. It is very
portable but it's only got so much volume. That 2x6 Minimark only produced 150 watts RMS. Now that said I've played in 14 piece big bands with a 100 Watt RMS Walter Woods M-100-8 and two Musicman cabinets. It kinda worked but I was getting burried. So, what can
you do that's less expensive. The Fender Rumble 2x10 is a 500 watt amp that sounds decent with DB.
 
#19
Distortion could come from an overdriven preamp stage.
The FullCircle is a rather hot pickup, so if the gain is set too high you get distortion in the first amplifier stage.

If your preamp output is set high, you can get get distorting in the amp input stage. The gain control can be behind the first input amplification stage and if that stage is overdriven by a high input signal, setting the gain low only makes the already overdriven signal quieter, but nonetheless overdriven.

There is a damping capacitor in the underlength mounted double jack of the Full Circle. Without that the signal is even hotter.

Set the amp master high, the amp input lower, the preamp out neutral and the preamp gain low. Then experiment turning the gain of both, but first one, then the other, higher until you hear some distortions and put it a bit back. Then do the other gain control. If you cannot get loud enough your amp/cab cannot do what you want.
I find the HPF frequency reasonable, but it should have at least 12 db/octave. Of course, you won't get much lows from that amp with high volume.
 
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#20
All good suggestions, and will help with your sound. I've played in a lot of big band's (frankly, I never loved it) Normally the rhythm section is down in a hole, and the horns above in some kind of terrace situations.
So, unless the monitoring setup is really good you're going to get potential feedback from every direction. I remember constantly juggling with piano and drum monitors so they weren't creating feedback because
the bass was bleeding into them. My take is that you need to be totally out of the rhythm section monitors, unless the sound tech's are first rate, it's better just to have your amp for your bandmates in rhythm and
go FOH with the bass, and event that's pretty problematic. I played a gig this year during the holidays that the tech (if you can really call him that) totally screwed the pooch with the bass to loud and two low.
 

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