MarkBass Direct Out level

[bal704]

Is there any way to control the DI output level on the MarkBass LMII head? My soundman told me this weekend that the DI level to the FOH board was being effected by the master volume. I've never noticed this before, and my previous heads all had separate level knobs for the DI.

Is this something the pre/post eq jumper would fix?

 

[Jerry Ziarko]

Yes. Make it pre, and your problem should be solved.

 

[bal704]

Thanks.

 

[bal704]

I received a response from MarkBass on this issue:

The DI outputs level is controlled by gain level, the master control doesn't have effect on the line out signal.I suggest to start with the master volume to zero so you can set the DI level to the PA, so turn up the volume as you like on stage.

I haven't messed with my gain, so I'm not sure what the sound man was hearing.

 

[KJung]

Is there any way to control the DI output level on the MarkBass LMII head? My soundman told me this weekend that the DI level to the FOH board was being effected by the master volume. I've never noticed this before, and my previous heads all had separate level knobs for the DI.

Is this something the pre/post eq jumper would fix?

Yes... if you set the jumper to pre, the DI will just be a 'pass through' for your bass, and will not be impacted by the master volume. If you need the instructions for the switch, PM me with your email address, and I'll send the PDF file to you.

 

[bal704]

Yeah, I'm a little confused about this. Riccardo from MarkBass (who I quoted above) is telling me that the master volume has no control over the DI level. I'm assuming his response to my question was based on the factory default settings, so pre/post shouldn't matter.

I'll still PM you for the PDF.

 

[KJung]

Yeah, I'm a little confused about this. Riccardo from MarkBass (who I quoted above) is telling me that the master volume has no control over the DI level. I'm assuming his response to my question was based on the factory default settings, so pre/post shouldn't matter.

I'll still PM you for the PDF.

You might also PM TBer Vic. He's gone through all the signal flow diagrams and understands all that stuff. He will give you the straight scoop. As far as I know, the pre setting bypasses everything. I've never had any issue with front of house saying that the master impacted the volume of the DI in pre EQ mode.

 

[BurningSkies]

Its true that the Main won't change the DI level, but as it comes factory set, the pre-amp volume will effect the DI level. As will the tone controls. If you chose to change the internal jumper, it will take the pre out of the equation all together.

 

[bal704]

That's what's had me confused. I will adjust stage volume based on how loud the drummer is playing that night, but I don't mess with the gain. If I understand correctly, that means the DI level shouldn't change, pre or post.

I'm not sure if the sound man heard a change in DI level, or if it was just the stage volume throwing him off.

 

[lsu921]

Anyone find the DI level on the LMII to be very low?

 

[deBont Amps]

Anyone find the DI level on the LMII to be very low?

Not really. How do you set your gain? Best is to let the clip light just come on, and then dial back just a bit. This way, the pre-amp is driven properly and the DI will get lots of signal form the pre.

That's what's had me confused. I will adjust stage volume based on how loud the drummer is playing that night, but I don't mess with the gain. If I understand correctly, that means the DI level shouldn't change, pre or post.

I'm not sure if the sound man heard a change in DI level, or if it was just the stage volume throwing him off.

Correct. The DI output will NOT change with the master volume.

 

[figuredbass]

I received a response from MarkBass on this issue:

The DI outputs level is controlled by gain level, the master control doesn't have effect on the line out signal.I suggest to start with the master volume to zero so you can set the DI level to the PA, so turn up the volume as you like on stage.

I haven't messed with my gain, so I'm not sure what the sound man was hearing.

It's helpful to remember these facts about the LMII:

1. The Master Volume control does NOT affect the DI output level - EVER. Changing the DI's jumper from "pre" to "post" EQ makes NO difference.

2. The Gain control ALWAYS affects the DI output level. Changing the DI's jumper from "pre" to "post" EQ, again, makes NO difference.

Whatever your sound man thought he heard in the FOH was not the result of changing the Master. As you suggested, he might have been hearing stage volume changes. IMO, it's always nice when your sound man can tell the difference.

IMHO, I seriously don't agree with Markbass' CS rep Riccardo's suggestion when he says, "The DI outputs level is controlled by gain level...I suggest to start with the master volume to zero so you can set the DI level to the PA..." That is NOT the purpose of the Gain control! It is not a "dual function" level control; it's only a side effect that the DI output level also gets affected by the setting of the gain control. The Gain control is soley to set the signal level so your amp will work optimally, and should be set as HitByABlimp explained it, and for the reasons he gave. The sound man should know how to control the DI level at his mixing board, first by setting the channel's TRIM control for the board to be compatible with the LMII's DI output level, THEN using the channel's fader for actual mix level. Some sound men don't even know what (or where) the gain trim control is! Well, it's essentially for the same purpose as the Gain control is on the LMII: to achieve optimal gain structure!

 

[KJung]

It's helpful to remember these facts about the LMII:

1. The Master Volume control does NOT affect the DI output level - EVER. Changing the DI's jumper from "pre" to "post" EQ makes NO difference.

2. The Gain control ALWAYS affects the DI output level. Changing the DI's jumper from "pre" to "post" EQ, again, makes NO difference.

Whatever your sound man thought he heard in the FOH was not the result of changing the Master. As you suggested, he might have been hearing stage volume changes. IMO, it's always nice when your sound man can tell the difference.

IMHO, I seriously don't agree with Markbass' CS rep Riccardo's suggestion when he says, "The DI outputs level is controlled by gain level...I suggest to start with the master volume to zero so you can set the DI level to the PA..." That is NOT the purpose of the Gain control! It is not a "dual function" level control; it's only a side effect that the DI output level also gets affected by the setting of the gain control. The Gain control is soley to set the signal level so your amp will work optimally, and should be set as HitByABlimp explained it, and for the reasons he gave. The sound man should know how to control the DI level at his mixing board, first by setting the channel's TRIM control for the board to be compatible with the LMII's DI output level, THEN using the channel's fader for actual mix level. Some sound men don't even know what (or where) the gain trim control is! Well, it's essentially for the same purpose as the Gain control is on the LMII: to achieve optimal gain structure!

Big +1, and thanks for the info on the pre and post gain and how it impacts the DI signal. I've actually switched my LMII DI back to post EQ, since I run that head 'flat' for the most part anyway. I also have my F1 set post EQ. I've had no complaints at this point.

I could never understand the comments about a 'DI being 'hot or low volume' or whatever. Any mixing board at even the 'weekend warrior' quality level will have an input trim control that will be able to handle any signal you could possibly deliver to a board, no matter how hot or 'weak'. I guess you could run into trouble with too hot of a signal going into a 'PA head' without any pre input trim/pad control, but heads like that really aren't capable of pushing bass through the front of house anyway.

 

[on1ne]

So is there an advantage to having the DI be post EQ? It still seems to me that the the best thing for the soundman to receive is the flat un-EQ'd signal (assuming he has a good system, knows how you want to sound and knows what he is doing. And if he doesn't, you're screwed anyway). Any EQ adjustments you make yourself are going to be based on what you hear on stage. You usually have no real sense of the sound out front, that's what your sound guy is there for.

 

[KJung]

So is there an advantage to having the DI be post EQ? It still seems to me that the the best thing for the soundman to receive is the flat un-EQ'd signal (assuming he has a good system, knows how you want to sound and knows what he is doing. And if he doesn't, you're screwed anyway). Any EQ adjustments you make yourself are going to be based on what you hear on stage. You usually have no real sense of the sound out front, that's what your sound guy is there for.

I see no advantage to ever running a DI post EQ. I just reset mine back to post because I run the amp virtually flat anyway, but if there ever is an issue, I will set it back to pre again.

As you point out, the EQ adjustments you make on stage to fine tune your typically small bass cab to the room and mix would more often than not be in a direction that would be a negative going into a big front of house system.

IMO and IME. In most cases when I have front of house support, the DI is always provided anyway, so it's pretty much a moot point.

 

[B String]

You might also PM TBer Vic. He's gone through all the signal flow diagrams and understands all that stuff. He will give you the straight scoop. As far as I know, the pre setting bypasses everything. I've never had any issue with front of house saying that the master impacted the volume of the DI in pre EQ mode.

+1

 

[figuredbass]

Big +1, and thanks for the info on the pre and post gain and how it impacts the DI signal. I've actually switched my LMII DI back to post EQ, since I run that head 'flat' for the most part anyway. I also have my F1 set post EQ. I've had no complaints at this point.

I could never understand the comments about a 'DI being 'hot or low volume' or whatever. Any mixing board at even the 'weekend warrior' quality level will have an input trim control that will be able to handle any signal you could possibly deliver to a board, no matter how hot or 'weak'. I guess you could run into trouble with too hot of a signal going into a 'PA head' without any pre input trim/pad control, but heads like that really aren't capable of pushing bass through the front of house anyway.

Interesting - while I generally prefer going to FOH pre EQ and recommend that, I'll also tend to go post EQ with my better "tried and true" gear. This is because any EQ I use on that gear is so very minimal, usually the same, and is set in such a way that I feel has "universal" application to my tone goal (i.e. FOH, stage, recording) rather than "corrective" soley for my stage cabinet.

I totally agree with your point about even consumer mixing boards having the capability of handling all DI signal levels! I've actually had to show some soundmen where the trim pot is, despite not even being familiar with the particular board!

 

[Guest043]

my LMII direct out is not effected by master volume..ever.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Not really. How do you set your gain? Best is to let the clip light just come on, and then dial back just a bit. This way, the pre-amp is driven properly and the DI will get lots of signal form the pre.


Correct. The DI output will NOT change with the master volume.

+1. Set your Gain for the instrument. Set the master for your stage (and/or room volume if not going through the pa). The Master does not affect the DI output. It will change with the Gain.

 

[svtb15]

I see one advantage to running a POST EQ DI in a few live gig situations..it can be done with almost any amp...And one is when i run on in-ears ONLY... IEM..
90% of the time use my REDDI DI on a gig..If on a strict IEM gig The amp im using is not used for stage sound, but instead a second DI that can send POST EQ.. when on IEM i may use the POST EQ DI to tailor my ears ever so slightly to achieve what i want to hear..
Yeah sure i can send my REDDI to house and monitors and get the sound of the REDDI .. and i do that often.... but at times i may want to cut slightly or boost a pleasing or annoying frequency.

I am using westone es2 IEM and they deliver what you put into them...Way nicer that the UE s that i have used...

I run my bass and drum mix very hot as compared to the other instruments in my mix so i like to tailor it some and the Post EQ works very nice with that.. Kick, snare , hat. Bass, some LV, and light keys to hear tonal center..

And if you want to know why i run bass and drums up loud in my mix it is because i notice most guitar players play Way on top of the beat and keyboard players well thats another long story.... I like to be in the bass drum mode and hunker down,, and if you know the tunes well enough i dont need all the hoopla going on around me.. I can see it al to clearly..