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Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by diglo, Apr 26, 2009.
What are your opinions on these micro amps? Thanks
My LMII rocks. Period. Someone else will pop in soon to tell you to do a search.
my F1 is cool. my SD800 is going to be better :]
They are both excellent amps. Many here say have a very different sound, but when I compared my former LM II to my current F1, I could not discern a noticeable difference, possibly attributed to the Dr. Bass 2460 cabinet I used during the comparison (I never really got into the tone of that cabinet, I have a different design being built by them ).
i have a lm2 and i love it. a good friend of mine played both heads through the same cab and said that the f1 was silent when not playing and the lm2 was not. but that's hear say
If you don't mind, what didn't you like about the 2460 and what is Marc going to build for you to replace it?
Per the above post, there are a zillion threads and posts on this issue. However, it is sometimes difficult to find the exact comparison issue easily with a search.
Very briefly, the LMII is a little bigger and a bit fatter and warmer sounding, due to the class A/B power amp. The F1 is smaller, and has a tighter, quicker, more mid punchy feel, and is a touch brighter in the mids and tighter in the low end due to the class D power amp.
Both are great, and both result in about the same volume. It would be very difficult to love one and hate the other, but they are different enough that most have a clear preference.
I prefer the F1 to the LMII myself, but I like it tight and quick and punchy. Those who like a little more fatness and warmth seem to prefer the LMII.
And, remember, the new LMIII is shipping. It's not that different from the LMII, but has a couple of nice upgrades. That also means that the final LMII's are being discounted. The F500 is also shipping now, which is the same amp as the F1 (same size, power, etc.) with a LOT more features (semi-parametric mids, mute switch, fully featured DI, etc.). And finally, there is the LMTube and 800Tube!
I hate to ask, but I don't know, so, I'm hoping you guys believe there are no stupid questions.
Please define what tight means to you, as in a tight low end. Is that meaning more low end, less low end or....?
Not a stupid question at all, since these 'non technical' terms can mean different things to different people.
Most on TB use 'tight low end' to mean that the bass response of the amp has a significant upper bass/lower mid component to it, so that it, for example, kind of emulates a bit of that 'bridge pickup' tone as its inherent voice. 'Tight' means the opposite of 'boomy or big'.
Amps or cabs with a 'tight low end' (i.e., again, that significant upper bass/lower mid sort of response) also tend to be perceived as quick... providing a bit of 'bap bap bap' to the note attack, versus a more 'giving, relaxed' feeling of amps with a bit more of a deep bass to upper bass ratio in their tones.
Lot's of stuff comes into play here, but that's pretty close to what many on TB mean when they use this term IMO.
The F1 has a digital power amp. The answer is faster with more dynamic. And it's a bit clearer.
The LM2 has an analogic power amp. It's more organic.
If you have a flat EQ with filters off on the LM2, you will need to put your VLE at (approximatly) 9 o clock to reach this organic sound on the F1.
For me the F1 is just between the LM2 and the EBS sound.
When I compared these heads I was shocked by the F1 power. The digital watt seems to be steroid boosted.
If you have a modern bright sound, you should prefer the F1. In France LM2 and F1 are now approximatly the same price.
I understand. Thank you. That really does help a lot because tight is used frequently in descriptions.
So it sounds to me that if you prefer the tight sound but sometimes need the more vintage low end boom, the F1 can do both. In general, would it be fair to say that with appropriate tweaking the F1 can sound similar to the LMII and vice versa?
+1 to Jackbass's post. I own both, and while they are similar, the F1 is almost like the LMII with its entire frequency spectrum shifted up a touch. The low end is tighter, the mids are a bit more upper mid prominent (grindy) and the treble is more modern and present.
I am one who always prefers to dial out brightness when desired (per Jackbass's comment about the VLE), and also to widen the low end with that nice deep shelving bass control than to try to dial out boom or crank in presence... pure IMO there.
I think Jackbass's recommendation hits it on the head. While it would be hard to love one and hate the other, if you are more into a bright tone, and more into a very clean, tight, quick, articulate sound (jazz/pop/funk, etc.), the F1 is probably voiced a bit better inherently for that. If, on the other had, you like a bit warmer, more 'organic' tone, the LMII will get start you out closer to that.
To answer your specific question, I can tame the F1 a little easier than punching and grinding up the LMII.
Edit: I see you have a Berg HT210s, which to my ear (I had one) is wide, smooth, deep and mid polite. To me, that cab matches very well with the F1, which kind of yin yangs to that cabs voicing.... wide and smooth meets tight and punchy. It sounds really nice if you like it very clean and precise.
Thanks for the recommendation, and now I more clearly see why.
The 2460 was much darker sounding than what I had expected from all that I have read here. The mids and highs were present just fine, and it sounded great with a Sadowsky but I am looking for a sound that is more like Chris Squire/Jon Camp than Marcus Miller, for example.
I am having a tall, narrow, vertical 2-12 with a mid/high driver placed between them in a D'Appolito configuration. This should give me better horizontal dispersion than what I was getting from the 2460, and the height will provide better on stage sound without having to put the cabinet on a stand.
I've been a/b ing the F1 an LM2 to death with an Ampeg 410HLF. Given that bass is felt as well as heard, the F1 feels better, and the LM2 sounds more musical and melodic. My son, after being drawn into the comparison, said the LM2 sounded nice, but the F1 was fun. One base reward I get for playing bass live is getting bootys shakin (We don't always get credit for it, but that's part of our job.) I think the F1 is a better booty shakin machine. The F1 thumps and bumps better; the LM2 sings better. Because verbal descriptions of sound can be frustrating to decipher, I thought I'd add my own dose of frustration to the discussion. I like them both and will make my decision within the next week.
I went with a MB LMII. Tried a GK MB2 500, was just too brite and harsh sounding. So, went to GC and tried the LMII and was impressed. Also played a F1, but it has a class D pre like GK, so didn't want to be disappointed. I play through Schroeder cabs and they add no color. You get all amp and bass for tone. Thanks for everyone's help. Peace!
"I play through Schroeder cabs and they add no color."
Umm.... not sure I agree with you there. IME/IMO the schroes add lots of colour. I do miss my 1212R though. :/
I think you made an excellent choice with the LMII. I've held off the GAS on the F1, because I just prefer the warmth of the class a/b to class D 'tightness'.
Where? I've been looking for one of these and haven't found anything less than $599.
Is Guitar Center/ Musicians Friend the only place in the US that sells Markbass?