Markbass nightmare

[ddezz]

After problems, I got rid of all my MB stuff and won't buy it again.

 

[Medicine Man]

My Markbass stuff worked great through like 400 gigs. Still works great, I just needed a Marshall stomper in my current project.

 

[DrThumpenstein]

Similar issue with the Markbass Compressore. Great tube-driven compression, sounds great, but crapped out a little out of warranty. I had it checked by a good tech, bad board. Replacement cost for the board was the same as just buying a used one. I tried a couple of other compressors but didn't dig them, so I got a used one and it's been going ok for a couple of years now. But I agree that reliability and support are lacking with Markbass gear.

On the bright side, I think you'll love the WD-800. I got one of the first ones and it's seen heavy use since last December. It sounds incredible. I've used it with several cabs and over a wide range of volumes and tonal demands and it always sounds great. I don't expect I'll ever need the warranty, but it's nice to know it's there.

 

[Rojd]

I bought a Markbass Little Mark 250 Blackline about a year ago from Musician's Friend. Worked well, plenty of power under the hood, but I was getting this static/noise related to the volume circuitry about 8 months in. I hadn't purchased a warranty from MF, but it was under the mfg warranty. I went through the place in California that does the Markbass repairs. I got a copy of my receipt from MF, followed all the steps, crossed the t's/dotted the i's, and mailed it to CA($25.00). I got it back 2 weeks later. They replaced all the pots and it sounds great. Better than when I first got it.

 

[Parrotlover]

I'm pretty sure this is a you problem only. you have had multiple markbass amps overheat? I find that super hard to believe you are not the reason. I've cranked my gain and volume to eleven to keep up with 2 drummers for 3 or more hour gigs with no problems ever. I have used her as the house rig for jams and multi band events with zero issue. this thing has seen 600 gigs min too.

as far as warranty if you do not have any paper work how do you expect to get repairs? I had one of the very first models and my drummer dropped it down a flight of stairs. it was about 2 months before the 2 year warranty was up and GC just straight up gave me a brand new one in a box no questions asked. and i never had a problem before the drop and the new one they gave me is just as reliable

What I do have is a manufacturer's date, along with a serial number which is as hard to alter as a car's VIN. Furthermore, that Little Marcus Series was just released last year, so there's no question of its age. Again, if an original sale through means of an "authorized dealer" is so essential to honor a warranty, how can a damn unit get released to the public in the first place unless it's through the vendors owning the exclusive selling rights.

Reduced to a syllogism: if original purchase verification from an authorized dealer is necessary to honor a warranty; and Mitt Romney 's Evil Music Empire has an EXCLUSIVE distribution contract with Markbass; then it's most likely originally purchased through MF or GC.

The manufacture date should trump everything, & I should be given the benefit if the doubt. Recently I bought a used Wizzy 12 from Euphonic Audio & EAs CS department verified they'd warranty the speaker, no original RTF'seceipt needed.

 

[Double E]

What I do have is a manufacturer's date, along with a serial number which is as hard to alter as a car's VIN. Furthermore, that Little Marcus Series was just released last year, so there's no question of its age. Again, if an original sale through means of an "authorized dealer" is so essential to honor a warranty, how can a damn unit get released to the public in the first place unless it's through the vendors owning the exclusive selling rights.

Reduced to a syllogism: if original purchase verification from an authorized dealer is necessary to honor a warranty; and Mitt Romney 's Evil Music Empire has an EXCLUSIVE distribution contract with Markbass; then it's most likely originally purchased through MF or GC.

The manufacture date should trump everything, & I should be given the benefit if the doubt. Recently I bought a used Wizzy 12 from Euphonic Audio & EAs CS department verified they'd warranty the speaker, no original RTF'seceipt needed.

A transferrable warranty is not automatic, there are conditions that apply. You are at least the third owner of this item assuming that the original purchaser was the one that sold it to the pawn shop.

There may be conditions in the ownership transfer that may not be covered by their policy, for instance maybe the warranty cannot be transferred if the item was used for commercial use like a backline rental service. Even if there is nothing like that, it sounds like minimally the original receipt needs to accompany the item as part of the sale for the transfer of warranty to be valid.

You have no idea who the previous owner is. Heck it may even have been sold as a factory second or pulled out of a dumpster. You just don't know.

 

[Parrotlover]

Ok, I knew that something was wrong and now I know why. The reason I am spending a little bit of time on this is because I have seen players go down this road with incorrect information, resulting in damaged cabinets and seeing that you already had a bad experience don't want to see you with another that in this case is avoidable. You are not alone in this, and others can learn from this exercise. To clarify, my comments are on the technology and has nothing to do with the brand.

1. Looking at the Wizzy cabinet data from their website, the 1W/1M sensitivity is not 103dB. The way the spec is written, it's 102dB at 2.83V/1M, and since it's a 4 ohm cabinet this equates to 2 watts not 1 watt. Applying the correction to 1 watt, this would be 102dB - 3dB = 99dB/1W/1M Presumably the other cabinets are of similar sensitivity because 103dB/1W/1M average sensitivity over the range of a bass guitar is almost impossible to attain is such a cabinet type by any manufacturer, especially in a compact cabinet.

2. The rated power of the Wizzy is 250 watts (presumably an "RMS" metric). Note that the Subway amps are 800 watts (RMS) at 4 ohms, and even in 2 ohm mode the 4 ohm cabinet will receive about 550 watts (RMS). This is enough power to completely destroy that cabinet unless you are very careful and have reasonable expectations. I emphasize this because I have had to deal with players who then blame the amp for damaging their speakers and don't want to see you go down this road.

3. Summing 3 identical sources of 99dB/1W/1M would result in ~3dB for the first doubling and another dB or so for the addition of the third cabinet for a net increase in sensitivity of about 103dB/1W/1M and the theory closely agrees with my experience.

4. Numbers matter, that's why engineers that design this stuff spend as much time in t he numbers as they do, this way what you get is what we intend to deliver.

Hope this helps.

Thanks, but the specs you are looking at are for the smaller Wizzy 10. The Wizzy 12 has two versions, the 17" high E112 &19.5" high the M-Line. Both come in either 4 or 8 ohms, & all spec out the same: 103db sensitivity. 200 watts continuous handling; maximum 126spl

Please take a little more time to educate me & help me understand the incongruity here. If it takes 2 watts to achieve that 103db sensitivity level, then would the maximum SPL cap out at 123db, or conversely it would require 400 watts to achieve that 126 SPL?

Bottom line, are you saying that when running my 8 Ohm CXL 110 & my 4 ohm Wizzy 12 in parallel simultaneously, usng my WD800 am I getting twice the actual output levels from the CXL 110, say for the sake of argument 97db. & only 94db from the wizzy

 

[Parrotlover]

Do you have a copy of the original sales receipt? Most transferable warranties require this, or the transfer of ownership/registration by the original purchaser or something along these lines (each company is different, in the case of both companies I was involved with, if there is no receipt available, the warranty period started at the date of manufacture, or date of final QC).
Also, most companies only honor warranties if the product was originally sold in the region (country or in the case of economic regions like the EU) that warranty service is requested. That's because of the various international laws that govern who is responsible for the costs of supplying the warranty service. In some cases, it's not the manufacturer but by law the importer of record. Yes, it can be "stupid-confusing".

On a more positive note in terms of trying to fix this. Is there a way of contacting the parent corporation of all these various chains that have an exclusive deal with Markbass. Those trolling this post are missing a very important issue. No corporate accountability outside of Italy. Virtual Sound Technigy in Arcadia is an authorized repair shop. It is NOT Musicians Friend, Guitar Center. Music 123 Woodwinds & Brass winds etc etc.

 

[Matty Koff]

The requirement of an original receipt to honor warranty isn't something that's unique to Markbass or the music industry, and many companies only provide a warranty for the original owner.

There's really no telling what's causing the unit to malfunction at this point or what it's been through. Who's to say it hasn't been dropped, or involved in a power surge, or short circuit. Why did the original owner sell to a pawnshop rather than seek warranty service?

It would have been a nice move if Markbass HAD offered a free repair but they're in no way obligated to do so under the conditions of how you acquired it. The fact that they have exclusivity with vendors doesn't stop them from being their own company.

The fact that they offer a transferable warranty at all is more than some hardware companies will give you. Your risk was buying from a pawnshop unfortunately. 2nd hand from someone who could email/print you a receipt might be thought for consideration for future used purchases, if warranty is a concern.

 

[Phil508]

That's why I tried both at home and chose the Mesa.

 

[Double E]

Those trolling this post are missing a very important issue. No corporate accountability outside of Italy

Exactly how is this an issue? It might be, I suppose, if they were not delivering on a valid warranty claim.

However, no matter how much you want it to be, your's is not a valid claim. They have nothing to be held accountable for.

 

[Parrotlover]

The requirement of an original receipt to honor warranty isn't something that's unique to Markbass or the music industry, and many companies only provide a warranty for the original owner.

There's really no telling what's causing the unit to malfunction at this point or what it's been through. Who's to say it hasn't been dropped, or involved in a power surge, or short circuit. Why did the original owner sell to a pawnshop rather than seek warranty service?

It would have been a nice move if Markbass HAD offered a free repair but they're in no way obligated to do so under the conditions of how you acquired it. The fact that they have exclusivity with vendors doesn't stop them from being their own company.

The fact that they offer a transferable warranty at all is more than some hardware companies will give you. Your risk was buying from a pawnshop unfortunately. 2nd hand from someone who could email/print you a receipt might be thought for consideration for future used purchases, if warranty is a concern.

No actually the reason given for needing a receipt is proof of purchasing from an authorized dealer. With Mitt Romney's Evil Music Empire having a monopoly on distribution it's not rocket science to figure out where it came from. So this is a case of an unyielding adherence to the letter of the law at the expense of the proverbial spirit of the Law.

You ask what if it were dropped by the previous owner? I ask what if I had the original receipt & had been dropped by the original owner?

As it's acted up by intermittently shutting down it's obvious it hasn't been dropped. For two straight days it's been running flawlessly.

 

[Parrotlover]

That's why I tried both at home and chose the Mesa.View attachment 3536998

Thanks for not trolling my thread like some of those other Brown & Black Shirt Authoritarian Personality types.

Yeah, when I made this purchase it was just to back up my G&K, not as a primary $900-1000 amp. Funny thing is that now that I keep my strings pristine (guitar gloves) the G&K is too damn lean, & this Marcus Miller amp gives me the perfect Marcus Miller sound. It's playing fine now & if it acts up it might be worth fixing. I am anticipating the WD800 will be superior, & the G&K can go.

 

[agedhorse]

Thanks, but the specs you are looking at are for the smaller Wizzy 10. The Wizzy 12 has two versions, the 17" high E112 &19.5" high the M-Line. Both come in either 4 or 8 ohms, & all spec out the same: 103db sensitivity. 200 watts continuous handling; maximum 126spl

Please take a little more time to educate me & help me understand the incongruity here. If it takes 2 watts to achieve that 103db sensitivity level, then would the maximum SPL cap out at 123db, or conversely it would require 400 watts to achieve that 126 SPL?

Bottom line, are you saying that when running my 8 Ohm CXL 110 & my 4 ohm Wizzy 12 in parallel simultaneously, usng my WD800 am I getting twice the actual output levels from the CXL 110, say for the sake of argument 97db. & only 94db from the wizzy

For the first part of your question, using their own specs, they do not state that the sensitivity is based on 1W/1M, they just state 1M which requires interpretation based on what is really going on.

• Frequency Response: 45Hz to 12kHz
• Sensitivity: 103dB @ 1m
• Sound Pressure: 126dB @ 1m
• Power Handling: 200 watts
• Impedance: 4 or 8 ohms

Since I know what is the practical maximum sensitivity is for the range of 12" driver parameters that are suitable for a ported bass guitar speaker, there are really only a couple of logical conclusions somebody who (really) understands this stuff can come to. Firstly, 103dB/1W/1M is pretty much at the theoretical maximum sensitivity for a driver in a ported cabinet over the frequency range suitable for bass guitar, any designer I know would "sell their first born" to achieve this in practice. Combine this with the fact that they use 2.83V rather than 1 watt in their other specs, I think that maybe some of the details got left out. I would expect this to be 100dB/1W/1M, which would be 103dB/2.83V/1M for the 4 ohm cabinet. This very closely agrees with what theory predicts that 110 version being ~1 dB less sensitive. This is generally manufacturer independent, being based on the limitations of driver technology and physics.

For the second part of your question, for a speaker that is 103dB/2W/1M is also 100dB/1W/1M. That would be 110dB at 10W, 120dB at 100W, 123dB at 200W and 126dB at 400W (for as long as it survives).

For the third part of your question, I think you have this backwards (if I'm reading it correctly). The 800 watt output of your amp will split such that the 8 ohm 110 receives ~1/3 of the amp's rated power and the 4 ohm 112 will receive ~2/3 of the amp's rated power. Roughly, this translates into the 110 receiving ~275 watts and your 112 receiving ~525 watts.

For sensitivity purposes, the 110 receives 1/2 of the power that the 112 receives, therefore the sensitivity balance results in the 110 always being 3dB less than the 112 before factoring in the cabinet's native difference in sensitivity (resulting in a 4dB difference). This is why mixing impedances on between single driver cabinets is not a very good approach, one cabinet will always get buried by the other.

From the information above, it should be quite clear why I posted the warning I did regarding using your cabinets with an 800 watt amp without being VERY careful.

 

[Matty Koff]

This warranty does not cover:

1. any product that has been altered or modified in any way or upon which the serial number has been tampered with or altered.
2. any product whose warranty registration has been altered or upon which false information has been given.
3. Any non-factory installed electrical/electronic components or tuning hardware
4. Accidental or intentional damage
5. Any product that has been damaged due to misuse, negligence, accident, or improper use, handling, installation and/or operation including violation of the technical and safety standards.
6. The subjective issue of tonal characteristics.
7. Shipping damages of any kind.
8. Any product that has been subjected to extremes of humidity or temperature, incorrect main voltage, insufficient ventilation or other incorrect cause beyond control of Markworld;
9. Normal wear and tear (i.e., worn frets, worn machine heads, worn plating, string replacement, scratched pickguards, or damages to or discoloration finish for any reason).
10. Any product that has been purchased from an unauthorized dealer, or upon which unauthorized repair or service has been performed.
11. Any factory installed electronics after a period of one (I) year following the original date of purchase.
12. Cracking, discoloration or damage of any sort to the finish or plating for any reason
13. Damages caused by accidents, force, lightning, strike, fire, unsuitable ventilation, deposits of undefined substances, battery leakage or any other unforeseeable risks that Markworld can neither predict nor influence in any way,
14. Markworld reserves the right to redesign or improve/modify its products at any time without any obligation to modify previously manufactured products.

Taken directly from the Markbass website.. all of about 10 seconds worth of effort to find.. meaning you could've looked it up before placing the order and known you weren't eligible for warranty coverage.

Now, you have every right not to choose markbass in the future based on their warranty coverage.. but it doesn't change the fact that you purchased a used item from someone without doing your homework before hand, and have expectations that Markbass go above and beyond for you for some reason.

Chalk it up as a lesson learned. The most you can do at this point is accept the loss or pay to have it repaired.. or if you know someone who's pretty tech savy, it might be worth opening it up to see if there are any immediately obvious issues that aren't hard to fix.

Ultimately, enjoy your mesa boogie though.. I'd think if it's possible to repair the markbass for a reasonable price it'd probably make a worthy backup for a "just in case moment". Otherwise, there's always another pawnshop to attempt and pawn it off on.. whether the ethics suit your or not.

 

[Parrotlover]

For the first part of your question, using their own specs, they do not state that the sensitivity is based on 1W/1M, they just state 1M which requires interpretation based on what is really going on.

• Frequency Response: 45Hz to 12kHz
• Sensitivity: 103dB @ 1m
• Sound Pressure: 126dB @ 1m
• Power Handling: 200 watts
• Impedance: 4 or 8 ohms

Since I know what is the practical maximum sensitivity is for the range of 12" driver parameters that are suitable for a ported bass guitar speaker, there are really only a couple of logical conclusions somebody who (really) understands this stuff can come to. Firstly, 103dB/1W/1M is pretty much at the theoretical maximum sensitivity for a driver in a ported cabinet over the frequency range suitable for bass guitar, any designer I know would "sell their first born" to achieve this in practice. Combine this with the fact that they use 2.83V rather than 1 watt in their other specs, I think that maybe some of the details got left out. I would expect this to be 100dB/1W/1M, which would be 103dB/2.83V/1M for the 4 ohm cabinet. This very closely agrees with what theory predicts that 110 version being ~1 dB less sensitive. This is generally manufacturer independent, being based on the limitations of driver technology and physics.

For the second part of your question, for a speaker that is 103dB/2W/1M is also 100dB/1W/1M. That would be 110dB at 10W, 120dB at 100W, 123dB at 200W and 126dB at 400W (for as long as it survives).

For the third part of your question, I think you have this backwards (if I'm reading it correctly). The 800 watt output of your amp will split such that the 8 ohm 110 receives ~1/3 of the amp's rated power and the 4 ohm 112 will receive ~2/3 of the amp's rated power. Roughly, this translates into the 110 receiving ~275 watts and your 112 receiving ~525 watts.

For sensitivity purposes, the 110 receives 1/2 of the power that the 112 receives, therefore the sensitivity balance results in the 110 always being 3dB less than the 112 before factoring in the cabinet's native difference in sensitivity (resulting in a 4dB difference). This is why mixing impedances on between single driver cabinets is not a very good approach, one cabinet will always get buried by the other.

From the information above, it should be quite clear why I posted the warning I did regarding using your cabinets with an 800 watt amp without being VERY careful.

OK I still don't know where you get the 4 db difference. Both are Euphonic Audio cabinets, & both are rated at 103sensitivity. (The CXL 110 is a coaxial not a WIZZY 10) We all know manufacturers fudge their specs & have different methods of doing so.

But anyway, your warning is an eye opener. The Wizzy 12 could reach it's 200watt max limit while the CXL 110 is 1/3 of the way there. Yikes! Yes one will bury the other, and though the Wizzy 12 is the better sounding cabinet, the cxl110 will barely be of use.

BTW. I don't play loud rowdy rock, & for the jazz & fusion that I prefer to play I think that the Wizzy 12 would keep up with most unmiked drummers. However, I have been seriously planning on using these cabs for miking horns & amplifying keyboard along with bass. Sticking with the two 8 ohm cabs & using a separate amp for the wizzy might be necessary.

 

[agedhorse]

OK I still don't know where you get the 4 db difference. Both are Euphonic Audio cabinets, & both are rated at 103sensitivity. (The CXL 110 is a coaxial not a WIZZY 10) We all know manufacturers fudge their specs & have different methods of doing so.

But anyway, your warning is an eye opener. The Wizzy 12 could reach it's 200watt max limit while the CXL 110 is 1/3 of the way there. Yikes! Yes one will bury the other, and though the Wizzy 12 is the better sounding cabinet, the cxl110 will barely be of use.

BTW. I don't play loud rowdy rock, & for the jazz & fusion that I prefer to play I think that the Wizzy 12 would keep up with most unmiked drummers. However, I have been seriously planning on using these cabs for miking horns & amplifying keyboard along with bass. Sticking with the two 8 ohm cabs & using a separate amp for the wizzy might be necessary.

They are not 103dB/1W/1M average sensitivity, not from any driver I am aware of (and I can design my own drivers without any limitations and can't get that that number is a 10" or 12" over bass guitar bandwidth)

The situation you are in is why many companies no longer offer smaller cabinets in 4 ohm versions, many amps these days have enough power to destroy them, and few speaker manufacturer want to deal with pissed off customers who don't understand what went wrong.

 

[Parrotlover]

They are not 103dB/1W/1M average sensitivity, not from any driver I am aware of (and I can design my own drivers without any limitations and can't get that that number is a 10" or 12" over bass guitar bandwidth)

The situation you are in is why many companies no longer offer smaller cabinets in 4 ohm versions, many amps these days have enough power to destroy them, and few speaker manufacturer want to deal with pissed off customers who don't understand what went wrong.

Thanks for enlightening me. By saying they are not 1W/1M@ 103 are you still referring to the CXL110? Or are you saying that NO single speaker can be that efficient? I won't argue with the later. But the CXL 110E is an older speaker, the specs are as follows:

CXL 110: 103 sensitivity; 350 watts handling 45-18k FR: 8 ohms

Wizzy 10: 102 sensitivity; 250watts power handling; 48-5.5k fr 4 ohms

Wizzy 12 (you already posted it) & EA still makes this speaker in 4 as well as 8 ohms

If you're saying manufacturers lie about sensitivity, no argument. The Wizzy 12's FR is 45-12k, but it's LF extension is superior to the CXL110 that also lists 45 as it's LF limit. So yeah, manufacturer's specs aren't everything

 

[agedhorse]

I'm saying that there may be something missing. Perhaps the spec is for peak sensitivity rather than average sensitivity, perhaps it's for 2 watts rather than 1 watt (confirmed for the first cabinet I mentioned), but it's impossible to know without the incomplete information being provided.

My statement about 103dB/1W/1M average sensitivity over 50-5000Hz being an unattainable spec. applies to all manufacturers equally when using the same metrics as I posted above.

Unless otherwise stated, all cabinets used on a stage (rather than flown) would generally use a half-space radiation pattern. Using a 1/4-space radiation pattern would result in a higher number which is meaningless when comparing to a speaker measured in 1/2-space without conversion, just like 2.83V into 4 ohms results in a 2 watt sensitivity number which must be corrected back to 1 watt for comparison purposes.

All the conditions must match for the comparisons to be valid.

In pro audio, a flown speaker will generally be specified in a full-space pattern because that's how it's used, but if specified in half-space, that will be noted so that the appropriate conversion can be calculated. This was more common in point source array cabinets that could be flown or ground stacked.

 

[Parrotlover]

I'm saying that there may be something missing. Perhaps the spec is for peak sensitivity rather than average sensitivity, perhaps it's for 2 watts rather than 1 watt (confirmed for the first cabinet I mentioned), but it's impossible to know without the incomplete information being provided.

My statement about 103dB/1W/1M average sensitivity over 50-5000Hz being an unattainable spec. applies to all manufacturers equally when using the same metrics as I posted above.

Unless otherwise stated, all cabinets used on a stage (rather than flown) would generally use a half-space radiation pattern. Using a 1/4-space radiation pattern would result in a higher number which is meaningless when comparing to a speaker measured in 1/2-space without conversion, just like 2.83V into 4 ohms results in a 2 watt sensitivity number which must be corrected back to 1 watt for comparison purposes.

All the conditions must match for the comparisons to be valid.

In pro audio, a flown speaker will generally be specified in a full-space pattern because that's how it's used, but if specified in half-space, that will be noted so that the appropriate conversion can be calculated. This was more common in point source array cabinets that could be flown or ground stacked.

Well again it's no surprise that 103 is a stretch. But this is a huge disappointment in terms of my plan to sell my MB Ninja 122 Richard Bona & use only 2 very portable EA cabs to use for bass & PA amplification. (Using a 6 channel mixer plugged into the back of the amp). I'm not an advocate of playing loud. In my former gig the front man used just a 100 watt Peavy Keyboard combo as his personal PA. At low-moderate levels that cheap $1.50 piezo tweeter sounded good. In bigger venues playing loud electric Fusion & rock, that piezo got unpleasantly edgy, but kept up with the drummer's violent pounding, & it didn't blow. The use of that one Peavy combo also demonstrated that you can put the speakers behind the band, not worry about feedback & monitors.

I was inspired by this, & certain that my cabs (& amps) would be better & more useful. Now, obviously I'm going to have to keep that big Yellow MB Ninja 122 & use that along with the CXL110 as the two principal 8 ohm cabs for bigger gigs & PA use together at 4 ohms. If the Wizzy 12 comes along it'll have to get its own amp, For most bass gigs (no PA needed) the Wizzy 12 be my "go to" cab