Marshall 68' Super Bass clone for Bass Guitar ? Need Advice Please

[Frogman7-13]

Hello folks,

Newbie to the Talkbass forum here, I've been reading a lot of very good posts and gain tons of info and hope you all can assist me with your experience since I am a guitarist bitten by the Chris Squire sound bug.

I've read that Chris used a mid 60s Marshall JTM for years and was wondering if a 68' Super Bass 100w clone would be overkill to achieve his sound (with a Ric of course).

Was he using a 50w or 100w amp?

I plan to use a Marshall "Tall" style 4x12 cab with the amp, what speakers would be appropriate? I could not really fine what 12" speaker he had in the customer made Clair brothers 6x12 cabs he had used. Were they guitar speakers rated at 55hz and low power like a Celestion Greenback or bass specific 12"? I have an opportunity to get a Marshall 4x12 locally loaded with Celestion Pulse 12 Bass Speakers, should I stick with them or go with a lower power rated speaker and replace the Pulse ones?

Any recommendations would be extremely helpful.

Thanks for taking time to read my post.
Ed

 

[Wasnex]

Hello folks,

Newbie to the Talkbass forum here, I've been reading a lot of very good posts and gain tons of info and hope you all can assist me with your experience since I am a guitarist bitten by the Chris Squire sound bug.

I've read that Chris used a mid 60s Marshall JTM for years and was wondering if a 68' Super Bass 100w clone would be overkill to achieve his sound (with a Ric of course).

Was he using a 50w or 100w amp?

I plan to use a Marshall "Tall" style 4x12 cab with the amp, what speakers would be appropriate? I could not really fine what 12" speaker he had in the customer made Clair brothers 6x12 cabs he had used. Were they guitar speakers rated at 55hz and low power like a Celestion Greenback or bass specific 12"? I have an opportunity to get a Marshall 4x12 locally loaded with Celestion Pulse 12 Bass Speakers, should I stick with them or go with a lower power rated speaker and replace the Pulse ones?

Any recommendations would be extremely helpful.

Thanks for taking time to read my post.
Ed

AFAIK, back in the day bass players used regular guitar cabs, and they blew a lot of drivers.

I have couple of high quality Hiwatt 412 clones rated for 300W and I can get one of them to fart out with my DR103 if I crank it hard with bass. |I bought two of the cabs for my DR201 and they won't handle it flat out.

I also own own a Marshal full stacked loaded with Greenbacks. No way I would crank one of my 100W Marshall heads full out with bass through these cabs. I am sure it would sound great, but probably not for long.

The Pulse is a bass specific driver. They probably won't sound exactly like Celestion's guitar drivers. There are programs you can use to model the low frequency response of the Pulse in a cab. You need the volume of the cab, the dimensions of any ports, and the Thiele-Small paramaters of the drivers, which can be found on the datasheet. If the cab is already loaded, try it out and see what you thing. I believe a 412 loaded with these should be 8 ohms.

I used to run an old Fender Twin Reverb through a pair of JBL E120s. They could take almost the full clean power of the amp (85W). The E120 are super heavy and voiced way different than Celestions.

If you bass has the tone cap on the bridge pickup, there is less danger to the speakers. The tone cap functions as an HPF. I am assuming that if you are going for Chris Squire's tone you are talking about using Ric-O-Sound, and running the bridge pickup to the Marshall.

 

[chadds]

AFAIK, back in the day bass players used regular guitar cabs, and they blew a lot of drivers.

I have couple of high quality Hiwatt 412 clones rated for 300W and I can get one of them to fart out with my DR103 if I crank it hard with bass. |I bought two of the cabs for my DR201 and they won't handle it flat out.

I also own own a Marshal full stacked loaded with Greenbacks. No way I would crank one of my 100W Marshall heads full out with bass through these cabs. I am sure it would sound great, but probably not for long.

The Pulse is a bass specific driver. They probably won't sound exactly like Celestion's guitar drivers. There are programs you can use to model the low frequency response of the Pulse in a cab. You need the volume of the cab, the dimensions of any ports, and the Thiele-Small paramaters of the drivers, which can be found on the datasheet. If the cab is already loaded, try it out and see what you thing. I believe a 412 loaded with these should be 8 ohms.

I used to run an old Fender Twin Reverb through a pair of JBL E120s. They could take almost the full clean power of the amp (85W). The E120 are super heavy and voiced way different than Celestions.

If you bass has the tone cap on the bridge pickup, there is less danger to the speakers. The tone cap functions as an HPF. I am assuming that if you are going for Chris Squire's tone you are talking about using Ric-O-Sound, and running the bridge pickup to the Marshall.

In the late '60s Marshalls had bass specific drivers. Often Goodmans. The bass cabs were labeled 1935A or B said BASS in corner and the 100w cabs 1982A or B said 100 in corner and could handle either bass or guitar. I used them and they were fine. Not clear like JBLs but not muddy like Jack Bruce unless you wanted that. I was saddened when the Marshall HW series didn't sound like the old ones or smell like them.

 

[redstrand]

I'm having a Super bass clone made this summer and will just run it through my Ampeg 2x12, should handle it fine, just run it through a bass cab and you'll be happy.

 

[D.M.N.]

Hello folks,

Newbie to the Talkbass forum here, I've been reading a lot of very good posts and gain tons of info and hope you all can assist me with your experience since I am a guitarist bitten by the Chris Squire sound bug.

I've read that Chris used a mid 60s Marshall JTM for years and was wondering if a 68' Super Bass 100w clone would be overkill to achieve his sound (with a Ric of course).

Was he using a 50w or 100w amp?

I plan to use a Marshall "Tall" style 4x12 cab with the amp, what speakers would be appropriate? I could not really fine what 12" speaker he had in the customer made Clair brothers 6x12 cabs he had used. Were they guitar speakers rated at 55hz and low power like a Celestion Greenback or bass specific 12"? I have an opportunity to get a Marshall 4x12 locally loaded with Celestion Pulse 12 Bass Speakers, should I stick with them or go with a lower power rated speaker and replace the Pulse ones?

Any recommendations would be extremely helpful.

Thanks for taking time to read my post.
Ed

Funny enough, I just sold my JTM 45/100 yesterday. I thought it sounded excellent with guitar and great with bass when dialed in right, and preferably run along side my Sunn rig (to provide actual lows, the split rig works great, especially with 8 string). It was also damn loud, and technically only 70w with KT66s. Depending on how you plan to run it and what sort of shows, the 50w would probably suffice and allow you to get into the crunch territory more easily. A 100w is only 3dB louder than the 50w, so it's not massively noticeable, though the 100w will have a bit more heft and headroom, and likely stronger lows.

As for the cabinet, when you say "Tall" are you talking about the modern 4x12 TV cabs Marshall makes, or the vintage style tall 1982B cabs, as used early on by Cream and Hendrix? I used my amp with 4x12s loaded with Celestion V30s, and they held up quite well. Now, I wasn't diming it, and I kept the bass rolled down, but it worked perfectly fine for my needs. The Hi-tone cabs Wasnex mentioned are probably going to be about the best "guitar" cabs you can use for bass, they're based on cabs that were at the time used as All Purpose. Stock speakers in most vintage-style Marshall cabs are going to be insufficient for really playing bass through. The 4x12s I currently use under my Hiwatt Dr103 (which replaced the Marshall) are actually Vox AD412 cabs, I recommend taking a look for those, as they can be had pretty cheap (I bought two for less than $350 total). The cabs are US made of proper ply, with UK neodymium Celestions, which handle power great and are made to go with modeling amps, so they are a pretty flat response. They are also close in dimensions to the old 1982B cabs (little narrower, but same height).

As for the 6x12s, I believe the custom ones were made to supplement the Sunn 6x12s he had prior, and those would have been loaded with CTS speakers originally, though upgrades to JBLs were possible.

 

[Frogman7-13]

Thank you all,

The tall cab I am told is like the 1982B cabs Hendrix used.

And yes, the cab is 8 ohms with the four Pulse speakers.

I was wondering about the V30 Celestions. I'll look around for those Vox AD412, thanks for all the info folks !

Ed

 

[Michedelic]

I have an actual Marshall Superbass, with KT-88s, love it, not noisy or distorto at all unless I go to 11. Similar to my Sound City 150B, and Sunn 2000s and Model T, but all just different flavors. I run them through modern-ish cabs, 10’s or 15’s, and that seems to work well. But as noted above, Squire would utilize the Sunn 6x12 cab, meant for guitar, same size as the 2x15 2000s cab, 30w, 15d, 48h. You had the extra hight to accommodate the additional 12” pair, of course, and the extra depth(over a typical Marshall cab)helped with the bass frequencies, but the drivers weren’t well suited for the task. If you want to keep that 12” vibe, you may want to look at modern bass friendly 4x12 boxes like Aguilar, Mesa, or GK.

 

[Frogman7-13]

Hello again,

Any opinion on these 12" Celestion speakers for bass?

G12K-100 Celestion

Thanks again for the replies !
Ed

 

[Wasnex]

In the late '60s Marshalls had bass specific drivers. Often Goodmans. The bass cabs were labeled 1935A or B said BASS in corner and the 100w cabs 1982A or B said 100 in corner and could handle either bass or guitar. I used them and they were fine. Not clear like JBLs but not muddy like Jack Bruce unless you wanted that. I was saddened when the Marshall HW series didn't sound like the old ones or smell like them.

Thanks for the correction.

I have read that a lot of bass players blew drivers in their Marshall 412s and it was inferred they were just using regular guitar cabs. Course you can't always believe what you read on the internet .

Do you know what Chris Squire used?

 

[chadds]

Chris Squire used that Marshall 100 on a Sunn 6X12 cab.
Back in those days, "Gentle Giant" days I used a Marshall Major on a flatback SVT. What a sound. Add a Unicord Power Pedal and Vox Wah. OH MY. Was it punchy Mr. Bass? NO. Was it chordilishious fusion. OH yeah.

 

[bobyoung53]

In the late '60s Marshalls had bass specific drivers. Often Goodmans. The bass cabs were labeled 1935A or B said BASS in corner and the 100w cabs 1982A or B said 100 in corner and could handle either bass or guitar. I used them and they were fine. Not clear like JBLs but not muddy like Jack Bruce unless you wanted that. I was saddened when the Marshall HW series didn't sound like the old ones or smell like them.

I played through one of those 4x 12 Marshall bass cabs in a studio in Germany during the early 80's with a white Fender Showman head, sounded good and it did say bass in one of the corners on the front.
Early 70's I used a Marshall Major with two Sunn 2000S cabs and a flatwound P bass, earthquake city. You could feel the air hitting you out in front of those cabs when you walked out on front away from them.