Any tips on matching the finish on an American Standard. I need to match new veneer that Ive glued in on the side. Thanks.
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Double Bass matching the finish on an american standard
- Thread starter Blaine
- Start date
If it is a blonde or brown American Standard, you can get reasonable results by handrubbing the finish with a number of different materials. For a primer, check this video out for one of your options:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
If the factory original setup was a sunburst, it was nitrocellulose lacquer sprayed with an atomizing gun in a production environment and then subjected to half a century or more of wear and exposure. This will require expert skills to match properly. One nice thing about nitro is that while the majority of folks here on the double bass side do not have much experience with it, but there are literally 1000s of guitar guys who geek out pretty hard on old nitro and have the skills to help you out. (I've got a nitro spraying video on a new double bass in the post production editing process, but it is not available for public viewing yet).
Of all the things I do with 3+ decades of instrument building experience, finish work is still the one that demands the most focus and concentration to pull off correct. Someone with good skills can make repair work dissappear; on the other end, I see a lot more examples where they should have just left the old battle scars in place and not attempred to "fix" it...
Probably the second worst thing I see is when someone does a pretty good job of laying down and buffing out a sprayed finish, but they don't really understand the long term effects of color in the mixture and they use a poor quality dye that fades or changes color within a year or two. That is one of the most difficult aspects of color retouching- knowing that whatever your end result is, you are pretty much guaranteed that the original and the new retouched colors and finishes will behave very differently as they age. Shine a black light on your bass as it is now and you'll be amazed at how many old repairs you'll be able to see.
How about a few photos for the visual dorks so we can look look at what you are working on?
j.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
If the factory original setup was a sunburst, it was nitrocellulose lacquer sprayed with an atomizing gun in a production environment and then subjected to half a century or more of wear and exposure. This will require expert skills to match properly. One nice thing about nitro is that while the majority of folks here on the double bass side do not have much experience with it, but there are literally 1000s of guitar guys who geek out pretty hard on old nitro and have the skills to help you out. (I've got a nitro spraying video on a new double bass in the post production editing process, but it is not available for public viewing yet).
Of all the things I do with 3+ decades of instrument building experience, finish work is still the one that demands the most focus and concentration to pull off correct. Someone with good skills can make repair work dissappear; on the other end, I see a lot more examples where they should have just left the old battle scars in place and not attempred to "fix" it...
Probably the second worst thing I see is when someone does a pretty good job of laying down and buffing out a sprayed finish, but they don't really understand the long term effects of color in the mixture and they use a poor quality dye that fades or changes color within a year or two. That is one of the most difficult aspects of color retouching- knowing that whatever your end result is, you are pretty much guaranteed that the original and the new retouched colors and finishes will behave very differently as they age. Shine a black light on your bass as it is now and you'll be amazed at how many old repairs you'll be able to see.
How about a few photos for the visual dorks so we can look look at what you are working on?
j.
Hi James, thanks so much for replying.
Here are a few pics hopefully. there are three punctures on the side. the innermost ply was there enough so I was able to build it back with veneer. One pic shows what I was messing around with finish wise. a base coat of shellac tinted with tumeric and outer coats of shellac with transtint. do you think I'm close, color wise, and would shellac work or should I be looking for something closer to the original lacquer?
Here are a few pics hopefully. there are three punctures on the side. the innermost ply was there enough so I was able to build it back with veneer. One pic shows what I was messing around with finish wise. a base coat of shellac tinted with tumeric and outer coats of shellac with transtint. do you think I'm close, color wise, and would shellac work or should I be looking for something closer to the original lacquer?
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Any chance you could use watercolors or the like, to color the white veneer to more closely match the original wood...and then apply your colored shellac, etc?
I have used very thin (colored water, essentially) watercolors to achieve that, in the past. The closer you can get the new wood to looking like the old wood, before you apply the sealer, ground, varnish, lacquer, etc., the better chance you have of a semi-invisible repair.
Chet
I have used very thin (colored water, essentially) watercolors to achieve that, in the past. The closer you can get the new wood to looking like the old wood, before you apply the sealer, ground, varnish, lacquer, etc., the better chance you have of a semi-invisible repair.
Chet
The video link I posted was specific to using water based colors directly on the wood....
Blaine:
PM sent.
j.
Blaine:
PM sent.
j.
The video link I posted was specific to using water based colors directly on the wood....
Blaine:
PM sent.
j.
Sorry-- never got to see the video.
This is great. just what i needed. I think I have a little better game plan. Thanks guys. James, the video is a great help too, thanks.
Matthew Tucker
Commercial User
- Aug 21, 2002
- 2,686
- 387
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- Owner: Bresque Basses, Sydney Basses and Cellos
yes. What they said. I'd boil some very strong tea and reduce it to a thick dark liquid. then dilute as necessary and paint on carefully to match the colour of the original wood. Then try matching the finish with thin coats of tinted varnish. It's an art. Although the existing finish is likely to be an alcohol-based lacquer, retouching flat areas like that with an alcohol-based finish like shellac is quite difficult. You have quite a good colour match ... needs a touch of black i think ... but you'll have a devil of a time getting the edges to blend nicely.
An oil-based varnish is much easier to control in many layers to achieve a good match ... thin coats and allow to dry between coats. That's what I'd do, anyway.
Have a look at the finish under a closeup lens. I reckon you'll see lots of little black dots in the finish from the spraygun. This makes the finish darker and a bit opaque - its hard to match exactly. (also, I wouldn't use turmeric, it's not known as a very longlasting colour)
An oil-based varnish is much easier to control in many layers to achieve a good match ... thin coats and allow to dry between coats. That's what I'd do, anyway.
Have a look at the finish under a closeup lens. I reckon you'll see lots of little black dots in the finish from the spraygun. This makes the finish darker and a bit opaque - its hard to match exactly. (also, I wouldn't use turmeric, it's not known as a very longlasting colour)
