mesa bass 400+ VS mesa titan v12

[Calvan]

i'm in the market for a new rig. i'm strongly considering mesa. i'd like a comparison, or just opinions on one/and or both.

the titan v12 seems to be the new badass powerhouse. i like that there are two channels with overdrive control, since i switch between a "clean" and "distortion" pretty often. i like that it has tons of wattage/headroom.

but i also keep reading great things about the bass 400+. it seems like this is the amp that everyone is wondering why mesa doesn't make it anymore... but only 500 watts at 2 ohms? right now i have an svt 3 pro which pumps out 450 watts at 4 ohms and it's not enough.

my main concerns: power, versatility, clarity
so... which has more power? does the wattage really make a difference? which one is more versatile? which is more clear but still packs the punch?

all help is appreciated, sound clips would also be amazing.

 

[K-Funk]

For starters, Mesa fudges their numbers. The Bass 400+ only puts out 270 watts RMS at 2, 4, and 8 ohms (all-tube amps put out the same wattage regardless of impedence). Secondly, because it is all-tube, that 270 watts will seem a LOT louder. About equivalent to a 1000-watt solid state amp. This is due to the fact that tubes don't harshly move into clipping and although it is clipping, you won't hear it as such.

Secondly, the SVT3-Pro is a solid-state amp, and is rather overrated power-wise. So you're comparing a relatively weak 450-watt solid state amp to a 270-watt all-tube monster. The 400+ will eat the SVT3 for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Volume-wise, both the Titan and 400+ will perform about the same, although the Titan will probably be cleaner at higher volumes. Both amps are incredibly versatile, but the Titan certainly has more bells and whistles.

Lastly, do a search on Talkbass, there is already GOBS of information about these two amps, as lots of people here own one or the other. I myself used to own a 400+, and now own it's forefather from the 80's, the Bass 400.

 

[jokerjkny]

For starters, Mesa fudges their numbers. The Bass 400+ only puts out 270 watts RMS at 2, 4, and 8 ohms (all-tube amps put out the same wattage regardless of impedence). Secondly, because it is all-tube, that 270 watts will seem a LOT louder. About equivalent to a 1000-watt solid state amp. This is due to the fact that tubes don't harshly move into clipping and although it is clipping, you won't hear it as such.

Secondly, the SVT3-Pro is a solid-state amp, and is rather overrated power-wise. So you're comparing a relatively weak 450-watt solid state amp to a 270-watt all-tube monster. The 400+ will eat the SVT3 for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Volume-wise, both the Titan and 400+ will perform about the same, although the Titan will probably be cleaner at higher volumes. Both amps are incredibly versatile, but the Titan certainly has more bells and whistles.

Lastly, do a search on Talkbass, there is already GOBS of information about these two amps, as lots of people here own one or the other. I myself used to own a 400+, and now own it's forefather from the 80's, the Bass 400.

270 tube watts = 1000 SS watts?

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

270 tube watts = 1000 SS watts?

If you don't mind a little grit, which the 400+ excells at doing, it can give you the same apparent volume as most 1kw s/s amps. The 400+ is very loud for its rating; it just knows where to "hide" the distortion and has an attenuated ultra-low end that doesn't eat up its power, so those 270 watts are mostly VERY audible low mids and upper bass.

 

[shakerattleroll]

270 tube watts = 1000 SS watts?

It's a fact. Look it up.

 

[K-Funk]

I use 3.7 as the multiplier when comparing SS and tube heads. So actually, 270 watts comes out to 999 solid state watts. But I don't think anyone will miss one little watt....

And there's no such thing as tube watts and solid state watts.... a watt is a watt, which is one joule of energy per second. Tube amps just seem louder to to their smoother transistion into clipping, and accentuation of even-order harmonics as opposed to odd-order harmonics.

Back on the original topic, you really need to play both of the amps to see which one you like the best. However, this may be difficult with the 400+ as there aren't too many hanging around in stores anymore. Like Psycho said, the 400+ will give you a grittier, more primal sound and the Titan will be much cleaner at higher volumes. Both amps are incredibly punchy and full of character.

My personal vote goes toward the Bass 400+, just because I dig pretty glowy thingies inside my amp

 

[JFace]

I've played mesa SS heads before (but not the titan). They seemed to be very warm, with loads of low end and low mids. The high end seemed somewhat subdued, but musical. It didn't seem hi-fi, transparent, or sterile. I believe the ones I played were the m-pulse and the carbine.

 

[Visirale]

I've owned the mesa bass 400 (non-plus) and currently own the titan. I'm looking to eventually get a bass 400+, not to replace the titan, just to have.

That being said, the Titan is an amazing head. It is a great emulation of a tube head. It gets warmer the more you crank the gains (3 separate gain stages... there's a lot of room to crank ). I have no problem with saying that it can do things the 400+ or any tube head can't. I have all the clean headroom I'll ever need. I have the warmth I want.

It just can't nail the trademark maxed out grindy tube head thing the 400+ does. It can come close, but nothing is going to mimic the power tube saturation (although the titan's tube-driven mosfets do a pretty good job). If you're playing any diversity in genres, I'd recommend the titan. If you're doing straight up rock and wanna have your balls to the wall all the time, go for a 400+. Or if you can finance it, get both!

 

[Calvan]

I've owned the mesa bass 400 (non-plus) and currently own the titan. I'm looking to eventually get a bass 400+, not to replace the titan, just to have.

That being said, the Titan is an amazing head. It is a great emulation of a tube head. It gets warmer the more you crank the gains (3 separate gain stages... there's a lot of room to crank ). I have no problem with saying that it can do things the 400+ or any tube head can't. I have all the clean headroom I'll ever need. I have the warmth I want.

It just can't nail the trademark maxed out grindy tube head thing the 400+ does. It can come close, but nothing is going to mimic the power tube saturation (although the titan's tube-driven mosfets do a pretty good job). If you're playing any diversity in genres, I'd recommend the titan. If you're doing straight up rock and wanna have your balls to the wall all the time, go for a 400+. Or if you can finance it, get both!

thanks this helped a lot. i have two more questions for you... what cab(s) are you running the titan through? i'm thinking i wanna try running through either the powerhouse 1200 along with the 2x12, or through the 2x15 along with a 4x10. would either of these set ups work out okay?

and where the hell did you get your titan? i can't find em for sale on internet anywhere. i'll probably just have to make the drive to LA, good things its not too far.

 

[mikeswals]

Have you called the Mesa Store in hollywood to see if they still have a 400+ in stock?

 

[godspeed68]

I currently use a Bass 400 as well. If I were to give up playing all-tube heads, I would look at the Titan first, most likely. In fact, the only chance I got to play one was in Hollywood at the Mesa store with a USA Glaub. Wow.

Thats about all I can say.

I assume you will be extremely pleased with both amps...maybe look at resale value???


tom

 

[Visirale]

thanks this helped a lot. i have two more questions for you... what cab(s) are you running the titan through? i'm thinking i wanna try running through either the powerhouse 1200 along with the 2x12, or through the 2x15 along with a 4x10. would either of these set ups work out okay?

and where the hell did you get your titan? i can't find em for sale on internet anywhere. i'll probably just have to make the drive to LA, good things its not too far.

I'm currently playing through an 8 ohm 212, but should have a 4 ohm 810 by the middle or end of this month. If it were me, I'd keep the titan at a 4 ohm load. There's been a lot of talk about it, and Mesa doesn't seem to really recommend running it at 2 (although there is a dedicated switch for it). I'm sure you'd be fine, but I honestly could never use all the power at 4 ohms, let alone think about it at 2. Depending on your genre, I would use just the powerhouse 1200 or maybe 2 2x15s... But you just gotta see what works for you!

You have to buy through a dealer. My closest one is about 20 minutes away, so I'm pretty lucky... or else I'd be driving over 3 hours to the next closest one. They just want you to go out and try it from a store that knows about their products. It's a different business model, but it's working for them.

 

[Calvan]

I'm currently playing through an 8 ohm 212, but should have a 4 ohm 810 by the middle or end of this month. If it were me, I'd keep the titan at a 4 ohm load. There's been a lot of talk about it, and Mesa doesn't seem to really recommend running it at 2 (although there is a dedicated switch for it). I'm sure you'd be fine, but I honestly could never use all the power at 4 ohms, let alone think about it at 2. Depending on your genre, I would use just the powerhouse 1200 or maybe 2 2x15s... But you just gotta see what works for you!

You have to buy through a dealer. My closest one is about 20 minutes away, so I'm pretty lucky... or else I'd be driving over 3 hours to the next closest one. They just want you to go out and try it from a store that knows about their products. It's a different business model, but it's working for them.

it a better business plan IMO. i'd rather make a 3 hour drive (which i'll have to do) than deal with GC