Double Bass Messiah - Handel

[Andy Mopley]

Hi all

few questions on this..
1. is bar 6 for a divisi section?
2. is bar 11 (and where in treble cleft) in thumb position?
3. Why is tasto solo used anyway? I get the meaning, tasto solo is the same as n.c. (no chord) in a modern pop score but why some people also say "play the note, and don't harmonise it."??

Regards to all

 

[bassfiddlesteve]

This is not the part for cello/double bass. This is the figured bass line for the continuo/harpsichord player as indicated by the numbers below the staff for figured bass. If you view the correct part you will not see these elements.

- Steve

 

[neilG]

"Tasto solo" is used here because it's the first statement of the fugue subject. It's just bass singers and "basso" here. There is no harmony go go with it. One would think any continuo player of the time would have known not to fill in harmony, but maybe not.

 

[Andy Mopley]

This is not the part for cello/double bass. This is the figured bass line for the continuo/harpsichord player as indicated by the numbers below the staff for figured bass. If you view the correct part you will not see these elements.

- Steve

Txs Steve, is this the correct one then: Invalid Link Removed

 

[Andy Mopley]

"Tasto solo" is used here because it's the first statement of the fugue subject. It's just bass singers and "basso" here. There is no harmony go go with it. One would think any continuo player of the time would have known not to fill in harmony, but maybe not.

Thanks Neil.

 

[bassfiddlesteve]

Txs Steve, is this the correct one then: Invalid Link Removed

I've never played it from a handwritten score like that. That part is marked "Contrabbasso", but I still see figured bass that suggests it's also a continuo part.

The modern editions I've seen include one part for both cello and bass and several "senza ripieno" and "con ripieno" markings to indicate when only one person at each stand should play during certain passages. I always found it challenging as the bass line is relentless. It never stops!

- Steve

 

[neilG]

All that "con ripieno" and "senza ripieno" stuff is purely editorial. What's interesting is that there is a 1770 manuscript of the "contrabbasso" part with only the choruses. It would be easy to infer that, at least for Handel, the big basses only played the choruses.

 

[Andy Mopley]

"the big basses only played the choruses"...sigh!!

 

[neilG]

"the big basses only played the choruses"...sigh!!

That's funny?

 

[Andy Mopley]

To me, in a way it is, Neil..In my (very) limited knowledge, from the early days our instrument had been in search of a role so to speak. For some historians, and as you would in doubt know already, in the 16th and 17th centuries the double-bass had not yet found its niche in the orchestra. It was not until around 1700 that the double-bass was accepted into the opera orchestra. So I am slightly amused when I hear comments like "the big basses only played the choruses" equating to the "lesser" role that the instrument may have played in those days. Unless of course, the instrumentation required no double basses, thus the origin of your comment (most likely).

Ubj maior, minor cessat.

 

[neilG]

Maybe not a lesser role, but a matter of tone or volume. Here's a part from the period that only has the choruses in a part labelled "contrabbasso". That might have been the fashion just for Handel, or just what was done in London at the time. It would be interesting to know if there are any other individual parts out there.