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Middle Class Gear: Craftsmanship // And all of a sudden: WAR

Gazonga

Gazonga

Guest
Apr 17, 2014
116
16
Australia
#1
So I went to a guitar shop in Edinburgh and picked up a few basses. I looked at them online for quite a while but never got my hands on them. I was pretty surprised at how well made some of them were, especially in the middle class segment.

For Starters I had the Epiphone Jack Casady Bass, a beautifully made instrument, no question. Perfect wood and finish work, flawless bindings, a very, very comfortable neck and top notch fret job. It is incredible this instrument is available at this price, really. I used to play a Gretsch bass a while ago but that gave me a pain in the hand because of the super high action. Quite the contrary on the Jack Casady, it is only half as deep body wise and the action is very low for a hollow body. Only the three point (Tbird style) bridge and the tuners looked a bit cheap but hey, those can be replaced easily.

Next, I wanted to do a direct A/B between a Gibson Thunderbird IV and an Epiphone Classic Thunderbird IV Pro (the one with the Gibson pickups.) Right from the moment I entered the bass corner, I could tell them apart. The Gibson finish is more on the yellow-ish side whereas the Epiphone almost has that touch of burned orange, subtle but visible. Now, picking both up I have to say I was really shocked to see the Epi was of a much nicer build quality than the Gibson and really, not in a subtle way at all. I mean I was skeptic towards the Epi because I don't like cheap copies but really, I would have never bought the Gibson. Soundwise: Almost identical. I can only suggest checking these out next to each other. It is truly quite shocking.

Last, I compared a couple of Jazz Basses, all Fender or Squier made. The Squier ones all felt pretty dead to me, sure, you can play them but I found no joy in it at all. The Mexican made Fenders were the best in terms of price-performance ratio I would say. Look wise I could not tell the US made ones apart. Now I am no Fender expert but also not a fool and if you would have told me these came from the same plant, I would have believed it. That said, the US hardware looks just as crap as the Mexican one but again, hardware is easily replaced. I am more talking woodwork, finish and fretwork here and those were fine on ALL instruments of the Fender family, including the Squiers.

So the guy kinda hated me when I left the shop three hours later, not buying anything but it was a very pleasant afternoon. It was nice to get that TOUCH of things for a bit. No descriptions from the internet can replace it and I could not reproduce a lot of the things people repeat after others like...

... Thunderbird basses are neck heavy. (Really, there are NOT.)
... Jazz Basses sound thin compared to P basses. (Biggest BS I ever heard.)
... Epiphone Basses are of lower quality than Gibson's. (Which they are not.)

Then I moved on to the FX section and holy cow, I had some up's and downs in that area!

First, I've always wanted to try a Tech 21 VT Bass pedal because so many people said they are the best one can buy for money but really, I didn't feel that vibe. Yes it sounded sort of ampeg-ish and muddy but really not even close to the real thing and I could have just scooped the mids on the amp and boost the bass, it would have sounded the same. And the drive? Not my thing... So, glad I did not buy that one from the Internet :D But if you think you like it and want to know if is well made: Yes indeed, it is.

Next up: Zoom B3: Next...

EBS Valve Drive DI. So, this was instant love. I think it is far more useful as a preamp than a drive but that might only be because I like clean tubey sounds better than overdriven ones and I'd rather blend a tad of fuzz grit to it. Heavy as a small car and I'm sure you can throw it against the wall without affecting it's condition. Seriously BUILT LIKE A TANK. The thought of using ONLY this to play a gig crossed my mind. Just to give it a try. Good one.

Still reading? Thank you, I love you enjoyed it. I am not sure how this is supposed to be a forum topic but I don't have a blog or Facebook page so I dropped it here, hoping someone will enjoy it.

Cheers
 
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#2
There's no substitute for getting your hands on stuff. Imported instruments are probably better now in a lot of ways than they've ever been (except that I believe the Japanese made stuff by the likes of Charvel and Aria in the '80s and '90s were really much, much better) and a better value than ever. In a lot of ways, its very, very hard to go wrong.

I worked in the finish department at Taylor Guitars for about six months (at least three months longer than they should have kept me on) and what I learned there ruined me for ever being able to pay the regular price for a Gibson. I won't say that Epiphones are the equal of Gibson, but they're close enough that I won't pay that difference.

The bottom line is that the "right" instrument or effect or amp is the one that "speaks" to you. For me, the way a bass vibrates acoustically is really important is more important than what it sounds like plugged in. If it doesn't feel right, what it sounds like won't matter a whole lot to me. There's a lot of stuff out there; if one thing doesn't work for you, something else will!

My Thunderbird is indeed a little neck heavy.
 
#4
@wvbass I never liked Fender hardware, maybe I should have made that a little more clear ;-)

@Haji OMG, a friend of mine has one of them Arias (a guitar) and that thing is BEAUTIFUL. And yes, an instrument need to speak to you. Or you have it built especially for you which is a new step I have just gone with a custom Maruszczyk bass. (Still waiting for it an nearly dying here...) Now with your Tbird, try and hang it as low as possible, you see I have this Twiggy Ramirez kind of position going on and had no problem with that and it even was a rather slim nylon strap.
 
#5
Which music shop did you end up going ? I was in Edinburgh last weekend and I peeked into a shop with similar gear I believe. As far as the statements you made go I haven't had the chance to compare all those brands to each other. Hell the shop's around here don't even carry more then 5 basses each and those are either Stagg/Cort/Random Ibanez or an American Fender Jazz and Precision (Which they don't let you play cause they are the most expensive ones). Walking into that shop last weekend was quite fun , I didn't play any because I wasn't going to buy anything and I really dislike doing that but I did feast my eyes and GAS. A combo of a Mustang and an Orange amp looks appealing to me but I guess it will have to wait a bit :)

Edit: I was at Red Dog Music on Grassmarket according to Google.
 
#6
Stripes said:
Which music shop did you end up going ? I was in Edinburgh last weekend and I peeked into a shop with similar gear I believe. As far as the statements you made go I haven't had the chance to compare all those brands to each other. Hell the shop's around here don't even carry more then 5 basses each and those are either Stagg/Cort/Random Ibanez or an American Fender Jazz and Precision (Which they don't let you play cause they are the most expensive ones). Walking into that shop last weekend was quite fun , I didn't play any because I wasn't going to buy anything and I really dislike doing that but I did feast my eyes and GAS. A combo of a Mustang and an Orange amp looks appealing to me but I guess it will have to wait a bit :)
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Wow, you literally signed up to the site to ask this? That's funny. The guitars were in the shop at Grassmarket, the effects were in there (Tech21 and some boss) and the other ones I cannot recall, several other shops all over the city really! I took a whole day to strive around the city looking for them. But the one at Grassmarket (Red Dog Music I think it was) was really the best. Big, well sorted, all price ranges. Good one.
 
#7
I used to have an account but can't access that e-mail more , after that I slacked of playing for a bit due to an injury and work but I have been playing a lot again now the worst is over and I wanted to register again. I might as well just start posting afterwards haha.

I guess there are more bit the misses isn't keen on spending all day in a music shop when she's staying for her study and I was leaving in a couple of days so I got lucky by checking this shop out. I stayed in the hostel across the street (Kickass Hostel) actually but there wasn't really more time.
 
#9
Stripes said:
I used to have an account but can't access that e-mail more , after that I slacked of playing for a bit due to an injury and work but I have been playing a lot again now the worst is over and I wanted to register again. I might as well just start posting afterwards haha.

I guess there are more bit the misses isn't keen on spending all day in a music shop when she's staying for her study and I was leaving in a couple of days so I got lucky by checking this shop out. I stayed in the hostel across the street (Kickass Hostel) actually but there wasn't really more time.
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I got rid of the misses and now I can spend as much time in music shops as I want to and I can also buy as much as I want at whatever price. It's a remarkable feeling. Hehehe, nah I'm teasing but you should really contact the admins because they can help you get your account back :)

wvbass said:
All good, but not liking something doesn't make it crap. Unless it is something I don't like. Then it is crap. ;)
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LMAO, that's the spirit :D
 
#14
Oh I don't know about Squier series, it's just the two ones they had really were a bit dull. There may be good ones out there and then I may always be a rather picky snugglemuffin ;-) I don't know about the regular Epi Tbird Pro but the classic model really was what I expected the Gibson to be like. Very fine instruments if that tone is what you're after and I think taking the Sunburst and the White one as a backup for the price of one Gibson kinda closes that deal too.

@Haji I totally see how war and music are related, yes. :help:

:p
 
#17
Gazonga said:
I got rid of the misses and now I can spend as much time in music shops as I want to and I can also buy as much as I want at whatever price. It's a remarkable feeling. Hehehe, nah I'm teasing but you should really contact the admins because they can help you get your account back :)
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Haha , it would save me a lot of money on flights that could be put toward bass gear but I think it's like selling your first bass. The money is alright at first but down the line you will regret it. As far as account's go , I think I'm good like this.

Edit: the misses did point out a Epiphone EB-0 because I was looking at short scales which was rather cheap and really good looking as well so it might be a keeper for that reason alone.
 
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#18
Gazonga said:
@Haji I totally see how war and music are related, yes. :help:

:p
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LOTS of Soldiers are musicians. The military is simply a microcosm of the society those Soldiers come from. They're people, too. Its the industry I work in; I love what I do and who I do it for: those same Soldiers.

Hard rock and heavy metal have been on the theme of war really heavy for the past decade, and the themes go back A LOT further. Its a reflection of the times we live in now; music always has been a reflection of the times around it.
 
#19
A) I don't think Jazz Bass sounds thin compared to P Bass. In fact, the neck pickup sounds quite full and thick with the right EQ. However, where the P Bass excels is finding that perfect place between the kick drum and the guitars where it sits. It can be bright and thick at the same time, whereas with J Bass, I find that, unless you have more modern pickups or series wiring or whatever, you kind of choose one or the other.

B) Of course, your instrument won't neck dive if you play in a position that wouldn't cause it in the first place, as in you're low strapping. Most happy Thunderbird players I see are strapping quite low and playing with the neck nearly parallel to the ground. If you're playing like that, no bass will ever dive. In fact, every bass ends up parallel if you let the strap get low enough. If you're playing with the strap so short that your belly button is below your bass, there's no place for your instrument to dive, either. Balance is only really relevant if you're playing in that medium range where you're actually letting your bass balance on its own weight and expecting the neck to stay diagonal.

C) I don't think anybody actually thinks lower end Gibsons are better than higher end Epiphones, unless you have a nitro-or-die attitude. That said, I've found Gibsons to generally have lighter bodies and thinner finishes. For some people, it's a big deal.
 
#20
honeyiscool said:
A) I don't think Jazz Bass sounds thin compared to P Bass. In fact, the neck pickup sounds quite full and thick with the right EQ. However, where the P Bass excels is finding that perfect place between the kick drum and the guitars where it sits. It can be bright and thick at the same time, whereas with J Bass, I find that, unless you have more modern pickups or series wiring or whatever, you kind of choose one or the other.

B) Of course, your instrument won't neck dive if you play in a position that wouldn't cause it in the first place, as in you're low strapping. Most happy Thunderbird players I see are strapping quite low and playing with the neck nearly parallel to the ground. If you're playing like that, no bass will ever dive. In fact, every bass ends up parallel if you let the strap get low enough. If you're playing with the strap so short that your belly button is below your bass, there's no place for your instrument to dive, either. Balance is only really relevant if you're playing in that medium range where you're actually letting your bass balance on its own weight and expecting the neck to stay diagonal.

C) I don't think anybody actually thinks lower end Gibsons are better than higher end Epiphones, unless you have a nitro-or-die attitude. That said, I've found Gibsons to generally have lighter bodies and thinner finishes. For some people, it's a big deal.










Yeah I understand what you're saying about position with the Thunderbird. The thing is with the classic four pro I owned, it didn't neck dive at all. It was well balanced unlike other Tbirds I had played or owned. I could play in any position and let it go and the neck would stay put. I know what your saying though. I've owned many neck divers and it never bothered me or caused any issues really.
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