Misogyny

[SamanthaCay]

Male OP: Can anyone help me answer this?
Female poster: the answer is nine.
Male OP: ANYBODY???
Male poster: the answer is nine.
Male OP: Oh thank heavens, thank you so much sir.

This happens to me all the time on talkbass and I just felt like venting.
As someone who is an educated and quite experienced luthier, who likes to help people on these forums I find this incredibly insulting.

Anybody got a tiny violin I can barrow?

 

[mellowinman]

Male OP: Can anyone help me answer this?
Female poster: the answer is nine.
Male OP: ANYBODY???
Male poster: the answer is nine.
Male OP: Oh thank heavens, thank you so much sir.

This happens to me all the time on talkbass and I just felt like venting.
As someone who is an educated and quite experienced luthier, who likes to help people on these forums I find this incredibly insulting.

Anybody got a tiny violin I can barrow?

It's still pretty bad in the music world, and the funny thing is, musicians and artists are supposed to be the enlightened ones.

 

[Killer Canary]

9 generally only works with lighter gauge strings.

 

[Gorn]

What makes you think it's general discrimination against an entire gender rather than the specific ignoring of you?

 

[SamanthaCay]

What makes you think that it's general discrimination against a general rather than specific ignoring of you?

Yup, and I guess at times it may very well be, at others perhaps not, who knows it's just annoying is all.

EDIT: Which also makes me wonder what have I done / said to warrant being ignored.

 

[Uncle Snake]

If you were making sandwiches, no one would question you.......

 

[maxxxie]

What makes you think it's general discrimination against an entire gender rather than the specific ignoring of you?

This behaviour is present in pretty much every male-dominated environment I've ever been in. It's not limited to TB, and it's not limited to the OP.

Here's another ever-present male behaviour that irritates the hell out of me:

Woman: This male behaviour irritates me.
Defensive male: Are you sure it's not just you?
Woman: I've been a woman all my life, I know this behaviour when I see it, it's not just me.
Defensive male: Women are so sensitive.
Woman: Sigh.


Here's another one:

Woman: I'm tired of men who do [a bad thing].
Defensive male: I don't do this thing; NOT ALL MEN!
Woman: Enough men do this that it's actually a really big problem for ALL WOMEN.
Defensive male: I've never done this thing, and other men I know don't do this thing (though since I don't live with those guys 24/7, I'm just assuming this, really), therefore it's not as big a problem as you're saying.
Woman: I've been a woman all my life, I know this behaviour when I see it, and it's actually a really big deal for ALL WOMEN.
Every other defensive male: NOT ALL MEN
Woman: Sigh.

And another...

Woman: Here's a woman doing a great thing, and I feel really inspired by her.
Defensive male #1: I'm better than her.
Defensive male #2: She's OK, for a woman.
Defensive male #3: I'd hit that.
Defensive male #4: If she weren't so hot, she wouldn't be so popular, there are so many guys who are more talented than her that don't get any recognition, it's sexist.
Defensive male #5: If she were a guy, nobody would even notice her.
Defensive male #6: Hey, everyone, look at this other really hot woman doing an unrelated thing! Isn't she hot! Let's all talk about hitting that, huh, amirite??
Woman: Can we please just acknowledge that this woman is doing a great thing, and that it's inspiring?
Defensive males, in unison: We're allowed to express our opinion. Just listen to us, we know.
All males, everywhere: Why don't more women do this great thing? Why is this such a male-dominated environment?
All women, everywhere: Sigh.

Aaand another...

Male loser: I was nice to a woman and she didn't put out; I've been friendzoned.
Woman: The friendzone isn't an actual thing. It was invented by losers who think they're entitled to women's bodies.
Male loser: Yes it is, when I treat a woman nicely, she should know that there's an unwritten rule that says she has to put out. I bought her dinner and everything!
Woman: You've got to be kidding me.
Male loser: Wah wah wah, I'm a Nice Guy!
Woman: Treating a woman as nothing more than a prize in exchange for you being nice is pretty much proof that you are NOT a nice guy.
Male loser: Whatever. She's a slut, anyway.
All women, everywhere: Sigh


And sadly, already in this thread,

Woman: I'm tired of men who do [a bad thing].
Defensive male: Make me a sandwich.
All other defensive males: HA HA HA HA he's so funny make me a sandwich. Hey, while we're here, let's post some really lame, pathetic, sexist get-back-in-the-kitchen jokes.
Woman: Why do guys do this?
Defensive males, in unison: NOT ALL MEN
All women, everywhere: Sigh
All males, everywhere: Why are there so few women in this male-dominated environment?
All women, everywhere: Sigh.


Max

 

[Will_White]

What makes you think it's general discrimination against an entire gender rather than the specific ignoring of you?

I've only seen her posts in the luthiers corner so I'm not sure if she's said anything of offense elsewhere but frankly she's one the top luthiers on TB. If she, @mapleglo, or @lbridenstine say it it's usually sound advice. Frankly I can't do with a full shop what she does with handtools. That said @SamanthaCay, I'm not sure your going to get much sympathy from the OT section.

 

[Will_White]

Wow. Hate much?

She's really only pointing out what happens.

 

[Gorn]

I don't know. It seems a little wacky to me for someone who's being ignored to immediately jump to the conclusion that it can only be because of gender discrimination.

 

[hrodbert696]

Woman: Here's a woman doing a great thing, and I feel really inspired by her.
Defensive male #1: I'm better than her.
Defensive male #2: She's OK, for a woman.
Defensive male #3: I'd hit that.
Defensive male #4: If she weren't so hot, she wouldn't be so popular, there are so many guys who are more talented than her that don't get any recognition, it's sexist.
Defensive male #5: If she were a guy, nobody would even notice her.
Defensive male #6: Hey, everyone, look at this other really hot woman doing an unrelated thing! Isn't she hot! Let's all talk about hitting that, huh, amirite??
Woman: Can we please just acknowledge that this woman is doing a great thing, and that it's inspiring?
Defensive males, in unison: We're allowed to express our opinion. Just listen to us, we know.
All males, everywhere: Why don't more women do this great thing? Why is this such a male-dominated environment?
All women, everywhere: Sigh.

I'd say I agree with and have seen most of your examples, Maxxie. I'll confess to being Defensive Male #4 in this scenario, but I'm going to double down on my defensiveness, okay? I've said that in response to threads about some female youtube bassists (generally started by males) about how amazing they are. The female youtube bassists in question generally are quite good but there's also a cheesecake factor in their vids. Take away the cheesecake factor and they'd still be good bassists, but not so good as to warrant the praises getting heaped on them, generally by male posters. IMO those threads are really an excuse to wallow in the cheesecake rather than actually acknowledge musicality, which is why I would (and have) post DM #4's line. I don't think that the recognition of the youtube girls is sexist against males who play at the same level but don't have the sex appeal, if anything it's more sexist in that it takes sex appeal as a prerequisite to giving a female musician recognition.

So there. See, I'm a nice guy. Don't you dare friendzone me! I got rights!

 

[hrodbert696]

BTW also, just to prove how super nice a guy I am, I'll also comment that @SamanthaCay and @mapleglo are dang impressive luthiers who do amazing work, gender schmender.

 

[BigDanT]

If you were making sandwiches, no one would question you.......

Is this supposed to be a sarcastic comment showing support for the OP or is it truly as inappropriate and sophomoric as it might appear?

I'm sorry, I can't speak to the OP's personal experiences here, however, I can say that misogynistic behavior is WAY more prevalent than most would care to admit. I work in a male-dominated field and I have several very bright, motivated and capable women who work for me that have to endure this kind of behavior all the time.
Perhaps it's not even misogyny as much as it is good old fashioned ignorance!

 

[Gorn]

Yup, and I guess at times it may very well be, at others perhaps not, who knows it's just annoying is all.

EDIT: Which also makes me wonder what have I done / said to warrant being ignored.

Maybe the ignorer disagreed with you? Or acknowledged your contribution and wants other opinions? Or didn't see your post? Or isn't interested in your opinion for whatever reason? To immediately come to the conclusion that the only conceivable reason is that this person is a misogynist honestly seems a bit silly to me, and perhaps a bit more discriminatory than you're accusing this person or people of being.

 

[Phalex]

Which also makes me wonder what have I done / said to warrant being ignored.

If you don't know, I'm not going to tell you!

 

[mapleglo]

Thank you for the kind words, especially for placing me in the category of luthier. I know my limitations, and don't really think if myself as such - more still a student of luthiery.

In any event, yeah, what Samantha said.

 

[PunkKitty]

What @SamanthaCay and @maxxxie said is spot on. I've seen it over and over again in work environments and on musician forums. @SamanthaCay, thanks for bringing it up.

 

[two fingers]

My guess is that you said something thay unintentionally offended someone else. It happens all the time to me. People don't appreciate strong black and white opinions any more. Everything has to be shades of grey.....

I wouldn't sweat it. I can't imagine even one out of a thousand TBers has any kind of gender problem. And you can't make everybody like you. Pkus, there's a strong possibility that it has little or nothing to do with gender.

I never even look at names or avatars when I answer post a reply. I don't care what color or gender you are.... at all. I think neither makes you awful or special in any way by itself.

 

[ZenG]

My guess is that you said something thay unintentionally offended someone else. It happens all the time to me. People don't appreciate strong black and white opinions any more. Everything has to be shades of grey.....

I wouldn't sweat it. I can't imagine even one out of a thousand TBers has any kind of gender problem. And you can't make everybody like you. Pkus, there's a strong possibility that it has little or nothing to do with gender.

I never even look at names or avatars when I answer post a reply. I don't care what color or gender you are.... at all. I think neither makes you awful or special in any way by itself.

It seems a lot of female bass players post once or twice then disappear into parts unknown citing the attitude towards women as the reason......

Player threads started by females tend to die on the vine sporadically....

Not an epidemic but definitely does happen......

There are TB'ers who will jump into a female bass player thread just to post some goofy meaningless testo-reponse.....

 

[carl h.]

I'm a 6'2" male with a beard and get ignored pretty routinely. It has little to do with gender and much to do with morons selective reading comprehension. Particularly if your opinion differs from theirs. Most questions aren't seeking answers but confirmation of their opinions.

Not worth getting involved with that sort of crap.