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Double Bass Mixing magnetic pickup with a condenser

Kristian

Kristian

Dec 5, 2008
523
248
Austria Vienna
www.lindkristian.com
#1
I few years ago, I had the Krivo pickup and I mixed it with a cheap condenser microphone and it was the perfect live sound. I had a preamp where I just mixed the signals and I could always easily and fast find the perfect balance for every stage and setting.
A few years ago, I switched to a small five string bass and I couldn’t any longer use the Krivo, so I sold it. Since then, I’ve been trying to get the same(or better!) sound mixing different piezos with a condenser but it never really worked.
The piezos always have a lot of frequencies that needs to be tamed and they easily get muddy(especially mixed with a mic).
I recently met a guy that builds handmade pickups for all kinds of strange instrument and we’ve began to experiment with some different metals, magnets, windings, etc... and with some very promising results!
I’m mostly thinking to use it as a blend with a mic. Has anyone else tried this? Don’t think I’ve ever read a post here about it. Like I said in the beginning, I got my best live sound with a magnetic and a condenser mic.
 
#3
Kristan,
I have a Clevinger Keyhole EUB with a piezo set and a Bartolini magnetic pickup. While it’s nice to have that option on a EUB

it’s not something I would do with a Double Bass. I’ve had a Tonninges magnetic on my Mirecourt DB and it didn’t improve the sound

compared to the Underwood, Realist, or Ehrlund. Just my take.
 
#6
Kristian said:
I have the yamahiko, Ehrlund, Wilson and Underwood and I’ve tried many else and all of them all of them sounds „blurry“ when mixed with a condenser in my experience. I got a lot better sound when I mixed a condenser with a magnet pickup in the past. I don’t intend to use the magnetic pickup by itself.
Click to expand...
Maybe phase shift issues.
Did you try reversing the polarity of one of the sources?
 
#7
Francois Blais said:
Maybe phase shift issues.
Did you try reversing the polarity of one of the sources?
Click to expand...

yes, and I’ve tried with different basses and preamps during the years. I think the magnetic/mic solution is a lot better than the piezo/mic solution. The magnetic pickup is so easy to eq and gives a super tight/clear sound. Just add from the mic(you dont need so much) until you no longer hear the magnet and you have a great sound without the hassle of a piezo...
 
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#9
Francois Blais said:
Interesting.
Were you feeding the piezo signal through a HPF (or low cut) before mixing with the mic?
Piezos can output extremely low frequencies (down to DC).
Click to expand...

Yes, I tried that also. i think the sound of a piezo and mic have many similarities and therefor „interfer“ with each other. A magnetic pickup sounds very different and „cleaner“ than a piezo and can help the more natural sound of the mic to cut through without turning it up to much.
I was hoping that someone else had experimented with this but it doesn’t seem like it so far. Try it! I’ll post some clips as soon as I can.
 
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#10
Kristian said:
I have the yamahiko, Ehrlund, Wilson and Underwood and I’ve tried many else and all of them all of them sounds „blurry“ when mixed with a condenser in my experience. I got a lot better sound when I mixed a condenser with a magnet pickup in the past. I don’t intend to use the magnetic pickup by itself.
Click to expand...

In my particular case the Ehrlund EAP solo, into the Grace Felix sounds so good by itself, I have no burning need need to add a microphone. I tried it a few times and

came to the conclusion that it was unnecessary to add the second source. I own one of the “best” magnetic DB pickups custom made for Martin Clevinger

by Bartolini, but as I said the EAP sounds so good why bother. Personally, I quit chasing for the “holy grail’ years ago, although I’m always interested in new concepts

and designs. Good luck in your quest young squire. ;)

P.S. If I was to add something to enhance and improve tone quality it would be a Sarno Black Box, with my bass and the EAP, the difference in tone quality was stunning.
 
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#11
Interesting! I've been thinking along the same lines. The first step for me (and it's a big one) is getting used to steel core strings. I'm not sure yet what microphones (maybe a Bartlett) but I'm in the process of getting the Krivo as we speak. In my case, I have a loud alt rock/shoe-gazer project that's gonna start back up again and I always had trouble getting an inspiring sound on stage. I'm also intrigued to work with the magnetic source as I've mostly had to EQ the crap out of the piezos at higher volumes. Definitely not MBOL but if it drives the group and doesn't feed back I'm hoping I'll he happier. I've also tried the classic fall back P-bass option with this band but my heart and hands are way more into the 42" string length (plus arco effects are not possible on the slab.)
The Don Kasper model Underwood and/or a mic works really well for the plug and play, low volume gigs of my more acoustic stuff but I'd really like to be inspired when the volume goes way up.
 
#12
Jeff,
I've been using Evah Parazzi's for quite some time now and like you, it would take me some time to get back into using Spirocores again. I did find that Daddario Zyex Strings will work with a magnetic pickup. Well, at least it did with the Bartolini Pickup on my Clevenger EUB. However
Zyex strings are pretty stiff compared with Thomastick Spirocores or even D Addario Heliocores. So it's a pretty steep trade off. I wouldn't go with Corelli's either the one's I tried were super thin and felt weird under the fingers. Sorry, I just wanted to save you a few bucks Spiros and the
new Perpetual's from Pirastro are the easiest playing of all the steel strings I've tried and believe me I've tried a whole lot of them. :)
 
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#13
Jeff Kissell said:
The first step for me (and it's a big one) is getting used to steel core strings.
Click to expand...

After years of playing gut I found this to be a very real issue when going to a magnetic pickup. I had a lot of fun in the beginning running spiro solo F# and B tuned to E and A with eurosonic light D and medium G. I paired them like this to have more or less even tension. The eurosonics have a steel core but still have a lot of the flexibility of synthetic/gut strings. Gut-like feel and even sounding through the magnetic pickup.

80A78C59-70B6-4D76-92C1-1DA3DF85BB0B.jpeg
 
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#14
The S42 weichs are growing on me but I also really liked the Perpetuals the short time I had them on. That was a few months ago and I was much more on the fence about moving away from gut at that point. The tension for both sets is very comparable and comfortable.
The Krivo should be here at the end of this week and I have several gigs in May so hopefully I can get this sorted by then. Back in the day, I had a Pierre Joseph's String Charger on my first upright and was using that in a loud rock setting in the nineties.
And, actually, the only reason I haven't been on the magnetic pickup train again until now is the gut string mythos I've built for myself over the last decade and a half. There's been a lot of soul searching over this past year of trauma with regards to how I approach playing bass... way too much to unpack in the Amps, Mics & Pickups thread!
 
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#15
Hey @JeffKissell, good luck with the mag pickup experience. I have enjoyed the feedback-free peace of mind of the Krivo and, later, the Biesele.

My pandemic pivot has been from Spiros to Evah Pirazzi Slaps, so I'm looking at (and frankly scared of) reentering the world of piezo pickups. Tbh, one gig fighting rumble and hum on a loud bar stage might send me back to metal strings!
 
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#16
I get it @marcox - I just got my blond set up with EP Slaps. Played a gig last weekend w/ Lifeline into PA with Turbosound ip2000s set up behind us. No feedback and plenty of volume. It sounded a bit boomy because of the elevated stage and the nature of the strings, but I was enjoying it and controlling it with hand technique. I can't use my Krivo on the bass currently, but am conspiring to add my Nadine to the setup.
 
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#17
I’ve always felt that slap players have a difficult time being heard because the energy of the slap is really hard to capture with a piezo because the energy coming of the string's
excursion (travel back and forth ) is not side to side. There were (are) some piezo pickups that could sense both side to side and in and out. Martin Clevenger had one and I believe
Rick Turner's bridge embedded pickup did to. Surely someone out there is building pickups that do both.
 
#18
My first pickup was a cobbled together D'Armond magnetic guitar pickup. A lot of guys around Detroit were using them. Not MBOL, but it really really worked. Everyone could hear me and loved it. I've been through a ton of pickups and mics since, hunting and searching. I've never thought of this blending thing. Sounds like a great idea. Lots of cables and boxes and distractions though. Those of you who are trying this please keep us posted about your real world gigging.
 
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#19
lurk said:
My first pickup was a cobbled together D'Armond magnetic guitar pickup. A lot of guys around Detroit were using them. Not MBOL, but it really really worked. Everyone could hear me and loved it. I've been through a ton of pickups and mics since, hunting and searching. I've never thought of this blending thing. Sounds like a great idea. Lots of cables and boxes and distractions though. Those of you who are trying this please keep us posted about your real world gigging.
Click to expand...

I leave my mic on the Bass all the time and I always use a preamp so it’s just one more cable for me. :)
 

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