More and more there seems to be more high end basses being made offshore. Dingwall has a hybrid China/Canada built basses, Modern Vintage, MTD, etc. I just have to get past the mental block that the bass has to say made in USA, Canada, Japan, or Germany. Compounded with the long wait times and labour costs of course.
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More high end basses being made offshore
- Thread starter MattF007
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Go look at the Price List for basses made in North America or Europe, I just know you'll figure it out: Huge price differences.
And two more things to consider:
Most of us may never be able to purchase the NA or European versions, so the Far East versions offer a way for guys like me to afford one. I've played enough Indonesian, Chinese, and Korean builds to know they can be virtual clones of the originals with little to no difference in feel or performance.
CAD/CAM and multi-axis machines are not geographically sensitive, so a properly equipped shop with a trained workforce can give you fabulous results from wherever that shop is located. This is how you wind up with Squiers or Epiphones that are eerily close to domestic build quality, or the great rep the PRS SE models have acquired.
And the original builder quickly that they can make a LOT more money selling licensed, high-quality clones from the Far East. There's a huge difference in cash flow between building a few hundred domestically vs. selling thousands of clones, which would supply a lot more capital to be put back into the business.
But a lot of boutique builders have zero intention to build clones in the Far East or the Czech Republic and prefer to market only the ones made in their shop.
And two more things to consider:
Most of us may never be able to purchase the NA or European versions, so the Far East versions offer a way for guys like me to afford one. I've played enough Indonesian, Chinese, and Korean builds to know they can be virtual clones of the originals with little to no difference in feel or performance.
CAD/CAM and multi-axis machines are not geographically sensitive, so a properly equipped shop with a trained workforce can give you fabulous results from wherever that shop is located. This is how you wind up with Squiers or Epiphones that are eerily close to domestic build quality, or the great rep the PRS SE models have acquired.
And the original builder quickly that they can make a LOT more money selling licensed, high-quality clones from the Far East. There's a huge difference in cash flow between building a few hundred domestically vs. selling thousands of clones, which would supply a lot more capital to be put back into the business.
But a lot of boutique builders have zero intention to build clones in the Far East or the Czech Republic and prefer to market only the ones made in their shop.
Roland GR 88
Commercial User
So far almost every country that started off as a cheaper option to western builders grew into a country of desirable builders as their experience, skills and economies became stronger.
Japan was not originally known or respected for their quality. Nor was Korea or Mexico and China is now well into the 1k range of very nice guitars. Pick up an Epiphone Les Paul if you don't believe me. Indonesia is on its way now and Africa may be next in line.
FWIW I'm old enough to have owned and dumped as quickly as I could a candy apple red Japanese Fender Jazz.
Worst $500.00 I ever spent.
Japan was not originally known or respected for their quality. Nor was Korea or Mexico and China is now well into the 1k range of very nice guitars. Pick up an Epiphone Les Paul if you don't believe me. Indonesia is on its way now and Africa may be next in line.
FWIW I'm old enough to have owned and dumped as quickly as I could a candy apple red Japanese Fender Jazz.
Worst $500.00 I ever spent.
No country has a lock on talented craftsmen or CNC machines. Country of origin and quality are not related. What matters is the quality of the people running the business.
If we're looking at the quality of people running businesses, we might all be doomed.
in the modern, contemporary, CNC, "world class" era = snobs miss out!
Are they REALLY high end just because the badge says so?? Nicely made....maybe. High end....no. Just my opinion.
Basses from offshore aren't suddenly getting more high end - they just cost more in the US at present. Look at prices online, and you will see that prices are being quoted in US Dollars around the world, and the list price says "excluding the US" in a lot of places. We're paying about 25% more than everyone else at this point.
With bass speaker cabs, the speaker diameter only tells you the diameter of the speaker. It tells you nothing more.
The country of origin on a bass only tells you the country of origin.
It's likely a little more nuanced than that. I would suspect that a USA Spector or a Canadian Dingwall represents the top level product line from those manufacturers. Someone probably made a decision to only use the best quality top woods, and go the extra mile on fit and finish on the US/Canadian models. Cheaper European or Asian models probably have the tops screened for anything "too nice." There's a pricing structure for the product lines and they want to maintain the luxury positioning for certain instruments. You probably won't see a wild burl top or water cured redwood on the cheaper models.
However, you're looking at diminishing returns on any bass over about $1,500. The playability and sonic difference between a $500 bass and a $1,500 bass is greater than the difference between a $2,500 bass and a $3,500. In this day and age, there are some pretty good $500 basses out there.
Another way to look at it is that Made in the USA is a sign of questionable quality. Rics are often talked about as inconsistent and quirky. When they work, they work, but there are always stories of tail lift, finish bubbles, and various other issues that "shouldn't be" on a US made instrument at that price point. USA Gibsons have had complaints. I've seen posts/threads saying the Mexican Fender products are as good as the US ones at a fraction of the price.
The country of origin on a bass only tells you the country of origin.
It's likely a little more nuanced than that. I would suspect that a USA Spector or a Canadian Dingwall represents the top level product line from those manufacturers. Someone probably made a decision to only use the best quality top woods, and go the extra mile on fit and finish on the US/Canadian models. Cheaper European or Asian models probably have the tops screened for anything "too nice." There's a pricing structure for the product lines and they want to maintain the luxury positioning for certain instruments. You probably won't see a wild burl top or water cured redwood on the cheaper models.
However, you're looking at diminishing returns on any bass over about $1,500. The playability and sonic difference between a $500 bass and a $1,500 bass is greater than the difference between a $2,500 bass and a $3,500. In this day and age, there are some pretty good $500 basses out there.
Another way to look at it is that Made in the USA is a sign of questionable quality. Rics are often talked about as inconsistent and quirky. When they work, they work, but there are always stories of tail lift, finish bubbles, and various other issues that "shouldn't be" on a US made instrument at that price point. USA Gibsons have had complaints. I've seen posts/threads saying the Mexican Fender products are as good as the US ones at a fraction of the price.
If you don't like the laws here, just have someone break them somewhere else and be sure to have them send enough money back that it is worth the trouble, as you are allowing them to make your thing for you. Don't be surprised if someone doing that thing repetitively gets really good at it. The price of displaying that logo is never small.
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Where is the device that you posted this from made? It's still a world economy. And has been since we helped Germany and Japan recover after WWII. Some think they can change that. News flash: they can't.
I play Gibsons. USA made. Even some of the components are from other countries. I love them.
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Compared to whatever device you are viewing this thread on, a bass guitar might as well be a hunk of chipped flint, basically 1950's tech with CNC manufacturing applied. It's just not very hard to manufacture a high quality bass anywhere in the world, which makes justifying anything over $1000 an excercise in marketing, or value added stuff like fancy veneers, more sophisticated preamps and controls, etc., virtually none of which is audible to an audience in a live situation. You are probably better off spending your money on a decent amp.
Asian manufacturing (which is mostly what it is) could be seen as 'gateway basses'. Some money to the parent company rather than an off-brand competitor with the hope of a European or American manufacture example being purchased later.
I don't know much about other countries but lately, the basses I saw from both Japan and Korea were putting to shame many long term established manufacturers…………….
IMO Indonesia is already there. They have been pumping out some great stuff since at least 2017.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
For the last half century, manufacturing of everything has been moving offshore.
D
"Offshore" is a bit vague... I'm assuming you mean low-cost Asian countries like Indonesia and China?
The best guitar factories in these countries have definitely reached a point where they can make basses that are easily as good as basses made in any other countries. They can make junk too of course. It simply depends on what level of quality you pay them to deliver. The quality of the wood is perhaps the most important factor at this point. If the wood is properly dried and good quality, there's no reason why an Indonesian or Chinese made bass can't be just as good as basses made in the US, Europe or higher cost Asian countries like Korean or Japan. It goes without saying that the quality of the hardware/electronics matters too, but the quality of the instrument is really all about the quality of the wood.
Unfortunately many cheaper Asian basses are made from poor quality, poorly dried wood, which means they may seem impressive at first but are more likely to develop various neck related issues over time. And that's probably the main difference between an entry level Squier and a more expensive brand/model these days (including more expensive basses from China/Indonesia).
The best guitar factories in these countries have definitely reached a point where they can make basses that are easily as good as basses made in any other countries. They can make junk too of course. It simply depends on what level of quality you pay them to deliver. The quality of the wood is perhaps the most important factor at this point. If the wood is properly dried and good quality, there's no reason why an Indonesian or Chinese made bass can't be just as good as basses made in the US, Europe or higher cost Asian countries like Korean or Japan. It goes without saying that the quality of the hardware/electronics matters too, but the quality of the instrument is really all about the quality of the wood.
Unfortunately many cheaper Asian basses are made from poor quality, poorly dried wood, which means they may seem impressive at first but are more likely to develop various neck related issues over time. And that's probably the main difference between an entry level Squier and a more expensive brand/model these days (including more expensive basses from China/Indonesia).
I bought a Lakland Skyline 55-02 about 6 months ago. It is a good bass. About a month ago I bought a USA Lakland 55-14, not even their flagship 55-94 and they are not with a 1000 miles of each other in build quality. The USA is perfect in every way. No dead spots, even notes everywhere on the fretboard, prefect frets and fret ends. My US fenders and G&L, while not at the Lakland level are better put together than the skyline too.
My approach going forward is quality quantity, and I'll be unloading some basses to consolidate them into a smaller number of "high end" basses.
Remember when Japanese cars were considered to be cheap poorly made rides?
I do.
I do.
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