Moving my Basses from the US to Berlin

[Deleted member 271037]

Shipping container and good insurance would probably be my first choice. If that's not an option I would pay extra for 5x checked baggage, with good instrument/flight cases and insurance. Shipping them by UPS or similar would be my last choice.

There are two things you might want to look into though:

1) CITES. Do any of your basses contain any endangered species listed in the CITES Appendices? This could be species of mother pearl/abalone/etc. in addition to woods like brazilian rosewood, honduran mahogany and other woods that were extensively used in musical instruments pre-CITES. If you bring instruments containing any CITES listed species into Germany without the required documentation (which can be difficult to obtain for older instruments) your instruments could be confiscated and ultimately destroyed. The risk is probably very low but if you turn up at the airport with five instrument cases there's a good chance you will be stopped at customs and if that happens you'll just have to pray the customs officer isn't a pedant or having a bad day...

2) VAT/import duties. You should contact German customs for correct information about this. I think you may actually have to pay around 20% VAT if you're permanently importing 5 musical instruments of high value into Germany. There might be different rules if you're moving there permanently but I would definitely look into this. I've toured Europe quite a bit and the only country my band ever had any issues with customs was in Germany, probably because we usually entered the EU through a German airport. Sometimes we just walked straight through customs without any problems but more often than not we were stopped (with trolleys full of instrument cases) and had to provide documentation that we were only temporarily importing our instruments for gigs. The way to do this correctly (when touring) would be to get an ATA-Carnet document for temporary import/export but this will obviously not be an option if you're moving to Berlin permanently. It might work if you're only going to live there for a limited period of time though? Before we learned about ATA-Carnet we had a rather unpleasant experience at a German airport. We were detained at customs and weren't allowed to enter the country until we had provided copies of contracts for all our gigs as well as a copy of our itinerary and return travel documents. The customs officials were polite and helpful and I actually think they were cutting us some slack (as we really SHOULD have had ATA-Carnet documents) but they were also VERY professional and strict about this. Things almost got ugly when one of the guys in the band tried to give one of the customs officers a free CD as thanks for their help. The customs officer got extremely angry and explained in no uncertain terms that this could be seen as a bribe! We were told to get out of there FAST before he changed his mind (and we were probably lucky they were so focused on our instruments that they didn't spot the cases of merch we were gonna sell at the gigs...). After this incident we always made sure we had the correct ATA-Carnet documents for tours in the EU.

Germany has always been my favourite country for gigging. Friendly people, lovely country and Berlin is an amazing city but you don't want a bad start to your stay there. Make sure you have all the necessary facts and documentation before moving. Of course things might work out fine without all the extra paperwork but it's not something I would personally risk.

 

[Luke the Fluke]

Only thing I'd be worried about is customs.

This.
Sent in a crate as part of an obvious move you should be fine. Send them separately and then you may have different customs issues.

 

[Dynacord]

We are shipping them but I'm not putting my basses in a shipping container and having them sit for 30+ days in bottom of a ship that isn't climate controlled.

I understand your thinking.

If it's of any consolation, I moved from the US to Europe in 2006 and included quite a few basses including pre CBS Fenders and other vintage instruments (and 2 cars). I packed them in their cases and wrapped them in blankets and packed into the cars. They arrived none the worse for the experience and there was the added factor that as my wife was repatriating it was all tax free (with the condition that nothing could be sold for one year - they did send an inspector just before that expired to confirm). If I had shipped separately, my understanding is that I would have had to pay all the import taxes and fees.

 

[doran.dragic]

If you own bolt ons you could take them apart and ship bodies and necks separated. That way the packages are not so long. But you also have to post 2 separate parcels which maybe doesn't save you any money altogether. You could give it a try to see how much would it cost.

 

[stevensivak]

Why do you say that a NYC apartment is worse than a shipping container?

 

[logdrum]

CITES and customs will be a hassle if they fly with you. If it were me, Id only fly with one bass and ship the rest with household goods
I think that's what many are saying as well.

 

[Jazzdogg]

Yeah, people move every day but usually we're talking within the same country or continent ,and by land not air….flying overseas is a little bit more complicated. His question is valid.

I never suggested that his question was invalid, only that professional movers handle these kinds of things every day.

 

[g-dude]

An average NYC apartment is worse than any shipping container in terms of temperature and humidity changed over seasons.

A shipping container is also roomier than the average NYC apartment, and the rent is a lot cheaper as well!

 

[6-3-2]

Shipping container and good insurance would probably be my first choice. If that's not an option I would pay extra for 5x checked baggage, with good instrument/flight cases and insurance. Shipping them by UPS or similar would be my last choice.

There are two things you might want to look into though:

1) CITES. Do any of your basses contain any endangered species listed in the CITES Appendices? This could be species of mother pearl/abalone/etc. in addition to woods like brazilian rosewood, honduran mahogany and other woods that were extensively used in musical instruments pre-CITES. If you bring instruments containing any CITES listed species into Germany without the required documentation (which can be difficult to obtain for older instruments) your instruments could be confiscated and ultimately destroyed. The risk is probably very low but if you turn up at the airport with five instrument cases there's a good chance you will be stopped at customs and if that happens you'll just have to pray the customs officer isn't a pedant or having a bad day...

2) VAT/import duties. You should contact German customs for correct information about this. I think you may actually have to pay around 20% VAT if you're permanently importing 5 musical instruments of high value into Germany. There might be different rules if you're moving there permanently but I would definitely look into this. I've toured Europe quite a bit and the only country my band ever had any issues with customs was in Germany, probably because we usually entered the EU through a German airport. Sometimes we just walked straight through customs without any problems but more often than not we were stopped (with trolleys full of instrument cases) and had to provide documentation that we were only temporarily importing our instruments for gigs. The way to do this correctly (when touring) would be to get an ATA-Carnet document for temporary import/export but this will obviously not be an option if you're moving to Berlin permanently. It might work if you're only going to live there for a limited period of time though? Before we learned about ATA-Carnet we had a rather unpleasant experience at a German airport. We were detained at customs and weren't allowed to enter the country until we had provided copies of contracts for all our gigs as well as a copy of our itinerary and return travel documents. The customs officials were polite and helpful and I actually think they were cutting us some slack (as we really SHOULD have had ATA-Carnet documents) but they were also VERY professional and strict about this. Things almost got ugly when one of the guys in the band tried to give one of the customs officers a free CD as thanks for their help. The customs officer got extremely angry and explained in no uncertain terms that this could be seen as a bribe! We were told to get out of there FAST before he changed his mind (and we were probably lucky they were so focused on our instruments that they didn't spot the cases of merch we were gonna sell at the gigs...). After this incident we always made sure we had the correct ATA-Carnet documents for tours in the EU.

Germany has always been my favourite country for gigging. Friendly people, lovely country and Berlin is an amazing city but you don't want a bad start to your stay there. Make sure you have all the necessary facts and documentation before moving. Of course things might work out fine without all the extra paperwork but it's not something I would personally risk.

This all sounds extremely German lol. They love following every rule, but they do make it clear what you need to do. I wonder if a moving company could help with making sure all your paper work is in order?

 

[Chrisk-K]

We are shipping them but I'm not putting my basses in a shipping container and having them sit for 30+ days in bottom of a ship that isn't climate controlled.

You are obsessing. Do you think bands touring the globe babysit their instruments in climate controlled environments? Do you think instruments made in Asia snd Europe are shipped to the US in climate controlled environments? Your basses would be fine in a container on a ship.

 

[micguy]

Only thing I'd be worried about is customs.

I've been to Germany about a dozen times at this point. Never had any issue with customs - indeed, noone has ever asked me to open anything to even take a look, even when I'm carrying a lot of tools that show up clearly on the x ray. The first time I got to Germany, the customs guy was standing there, with both hands on a sandwich, munching away. I walked into the area, he grunted and motioned with his head (mouth full, he didn't stop to speak). I picked up my stuff and walked on.

Germany is a very easy country to get around in and deal with - indeed, it sometimes seems too easy. You walk up to anyone at a counter, they say something in German, you say hi, and they switch to English. Some people will apologize that their English isn't too good (you're in their country and they're apologizing that they don't speak your language perfectly). Anyway, it's a great place - have fun.

 

[micguy]

You are obsessing. Do you think bands touring the globe babysit their instruments in climate controlled environments? Do you think instruments made in Asia snd Europe are shipped to the US in climate controlled environments? Your basses would be fine in a container on a ship.

A lot of bands that regularly tour other continents have gear stashed on every major continent they play - they do that so nothing flies over the ocean but the people.

Even within a continent, trucks carrying gear are not climate controlled - when the gear arrives, the first thing a guitar tech does is open the guitar "boat" case so the guitars can acclimate to the arena temperature. In the winter, the truck may be below freezing on the road, and the arena will NOT be heated to 70 degrees - it's usually about 50 degrees or so during setup - the place is only heated to something close to room temperature for the concert. If you want to baby your gear, fine, but in the real world, guitars get exposed to a lot more extremes than you'd think, and they come out OK.

 

[Dynacord]

I've been to Germany about a dozen times at this point. Never had any issue with customs - indeed, noone has ever asked me to open anything to even take a look, even when I'm carrying a lot of tools that show up clearly on the x ray. The first time I got to Germany, the customs guy was standing there, with both hands on a sandwich, munching away. I walked into the area, he grunted and motioned with his head (mouth full, he didn't stop to speak). I picked up my stuff and walked on.

Germany is a very easy country to get around in and deal with - indeed, it sometimes seems too easy. You walk up to anyone at a counter, they say something in German, you say hi, and they switch to English. Some people will apologize that their English isn't too good (you're in their country and they're apologizing that they don't speak your language perfectly). Anyway, it's a great place - have fun.

It's true that if you are bringing one instrument with you when arriving on a flight, they will tend to just ignore it and/or wave you through. 5 instruments and you'll very likely get stopped.

It's shipping (FedEx, DHL, UPS, USPS, et al) that is entirely different where it's pretty much 100% that it will get stopped and taxes, etc. assessed.

Shipping by container tends to be different again as that's often moving households. Generally involving having a broker on the receiving end.

 

[Rabidhamster]

That's a tough one. I agree a non climate controlled shipping container across the ocean could be dangerous to the instruments, but shipping for one bass from US to Germany is like $800 last time I tried to do it. Maybe there's a bulk discount if you pack them all together IDK

 

[manchego_eggo]

Why do you say that a NYC apartment is worse than a shipping container?

humidity swings here are crazy compared to most places. summers are super wet (80-90%) and winters are super dry and with climate change those swings tend to be more sudden so can really take a toll on instruments.

 

[Dynacord]

...but shipping for one bass from US to Germany is like $800 last time I tried to do it.

And, on the receiving side, VAT (19% in Germany) is added to the total value of the shipment including on that $800 (shipping and insurance). There's also duty - 3.2% IIRC. Also European customs has gotten a lot smarter and routinely looks up values online so lowballing values often gets called out (or they use the stated insurance value if higher).

From a European perspective, if buying or bringing a single instrument, it can sometimes be cheaper to fly and bring it back as personal luggage.

All that said, I lived in (then West) Berlin in 1988-89 and still visit regularly (a 3 hour drive). Great, great city.

 

[Thebiggestjerk]

Sell them all and visit the Warwick/Sadowsky factory?

I was going to suggest selling them and purchasing new ones.

 

[dhagopian]

Love the people suggesting "just sell your instruments." The hell? lol

 

[sotua]

When that happened to me, put them into their hard case (padded with tshirts for the ones that didn't have a fully molded hard case) and put them in the same shipping container as the rest of my household goods. Arrived fine.

 

[Danny O Danny]

Last August we moved house from Seattle, WA to Austin, TX. Obviously a much shorter move than you're dealing with. Still, here's what I did for my collection of over a dozen basses and guitars:
First, I had each instrument in a heavy-duty gig bag, or case.
Second, I collected guitar and bass cardboard shipping boxes (Guitar Center gives them away) and put each instrument, in it's bag/case, in a box.
Third, I bought some large cardboard wardrobe boxes, and put the guitar/bass boxes inside the wardrobe boxes and sealed them up. So now I had 3 wardrobe boxes containing all my guitars/basses.

Lastly, I loaded the wardrobe boxes, along with the rest of our furniture and household items, into U-Boxes (U-Haul's equivalent to PODS). Then the U-Boxes/PODS were loaded onto a truck and driven to Texas.
Due to delays in closing on our house, the U-Boxes/PODS were stored for a month in a U-Haul warehouse that was not climate controlled. In August. In Texas. Lo and behold, when we finally got the U-Boxes to our new house and unpacked them, everything was fine, including the guitars and basses.
So if I were moving overseas, I would probably take the same approach with a shipping container.