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Moving PA Sub to the Backline?

#22
EdO. said:
Basically I'd never heard of this and never heard this rationale for locating a PA sub center stage on the backline. Opinions?
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in spite of s0c9 's take: this issue fits in the "it all depends" group. there are several circumstances where placing the sub in the 'back' can work, and a few where it may be desirable.

many systems are using subs via aux: with only low end elements to the subs, it's just a matter of output needed vs. feedback potentiation in a given mixing environment.

i've put subs in some very 'strange' locations and any of them can work effectively because they are....subs... which give us, generally (but not always!), more latitude than the top boxes. i don't see the benefit in making this a 'rule' as per your BL (another expert in training?), but the idea is neither new, nor one to be categorically ignored. it's definitely in the "whatever works" vein! also: centering the sub would only have advantages in, again, specific instances.

the room (mixing environment) and the equipment/gear really dictates what we can get away with on the gig! if you guys play real, real loud = might not work, ever. if you're not going for earsplitting volume, it's certainly doable! :thumbsup:
 
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#23
JRA said:
in spite of s0c9 's take: this issue fits in the "it all depends" group. there are several circumstances where placing the sub in the 'back' can work, and a few where it may be desirable....i don't see the benefit in making this a 'rule' as per your BL (another expert in training?), but the idea is neither new, nor one to be categorically ignored.
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True in principle and in expert practice. But my own rule of thumb: when the decision-maker is in over his head, it's best to begin with a more conventional PA setup.
 
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#24
That is: We all have limits to our knowledge. If I operate within—or just beyond—the boundaries of my knowledge, I'll tend to recognize when I'm making bad choices. But get a person well past those boundaries, and he becomes increasingly less likely to effectively diagnose, trouble-shoot, or even register when complex systems go pear shaped.
 
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#26
DWBass said:
Y'all buy a bigger sub to replace the 2 previous smaller ones and to have a smaller stage footprint. Why add a sub back in the mix? It may also cancel out the FOH sub a bit. Personally, I wouldn't do it. I'm sure others will chime in.
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I think what he was saying is that this one new sub replaces the old one. It's not in addition to the old ones. There will only be one sub and he's asking where to put it.
 
#31
Nunovsky said:
I'm no sound expert but I've played in a bar where the sub was at the side, near the band, and let me tell you that it totally messed up my sound. It just sounded all blurry, with no definition. I had to cut almost all the bass and cranck my mids up just to listen to what I was playing. The other times that we returned there, we simply unplugged the sub to be able to get a good sound.
That configuration might work in a DJ setting, but with bands, IMHO just forget it. Put the sub in the front with the rest of the P.A.
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Perhaps a HPF on your bass channel on the mixer, set maybe around 50Hz would have helped in this situation.
 
#34
Slevage said:
One sub= good idea

On stage (anywhere)= bad idea

On stage as a back line = very bad idea
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This, period. My current main-band just invested in a new Bose system, with one smaller sub. Somewhere along the way, the drummer thought it would be "really cool" if the whole thing was backlined and used for monitors and mains both. It may very well work in a small acoustic duo or trio, but with drums & bass guitar, it ain't working. Loud kick drum, coupled with hollow box stages (and corner placement) do not mix well at all. The low-end feedback is almost uncontrollable. Will experiment with an out-front placement this weekend and see what happens
 
#35
I run our sound with my PA and often run a single sub. Out front in the middle is the place to often do it, not backline
unless you have no choice due to space. Better is to put the single sub on one side near the wall and you will gain 3 db and not have the frequency cancellation you can get from having 2 subs on opposite sides. I did alot of reading on the topic and have found in most of our settings these ideas work out the best. Every room is different of course. One thing I NEVER do anymore is put two subs on opposite sides of the stage. Either one in the middle, one on one side, or put two together in the front middle or a side nearest the wall. Most headroom and best sound out front.....IMHO and from my own experiences. Good luck - thats a good powered sub you got there. I hear those a lot and they sound great.
 
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#36
Just my tuppence:

Most places (and bands) could get much better sound if they'd either learn how to properly deploy and use their subs correctly - or better yet, just ditch them all together.
 
#38
I have to second or third the feedback caveat.


Back in the day when we ran our own sound from stage, we had problems with the kick drum head feeding back -- either full on feedback or just a ringy kick sound (no, we didn't have a gate).
there's no way I would put the sub on stage right close to the kick drum.
 

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