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Music Man sound and pickups

#521
Imho the pickup will sound nearly identical to stock. If a stingray doesnt work on one amp in one room.... its the combination of the 3. Get an eq and learn to push the mids forward for live tone in bad rooms.

Pickup change will go unnoticed live and will be an expensive lesson.
 
#522
aledeville said:
Yeah, I also thought about the room, but since the Jazzbass of the band before sounded fat as hell, I kind of ruled that out.
Click to expand...

A J bass sounds completely different than a Stingray. And that's exactly what I meant by that post, different tones work in different situations.

On the gig I was describing I started off with a P. There was so much boom going on that it was difficult to tame. I switched to my SR5 and within a few tweaks had it sounding significantly better than the P was in that room. Just because one bass sounds good/bad does not mean that they'll all sound good/bad.

dkelley said:
Pickup change will go unnoticed live
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that. Switching from alnico to ceramic would be a huge difference and you'd certainly notice it.
 
#523
Dave W said:
A J bass sounds completely different than a Stingray. And that's exactly what I meant by that post, different tones work in different situations.

On the gig I was describing I started off with a P. There was so much boom going on that it was difficult to tame. I switched to my SR5 and within a few tweaks had it sounding significantly better than the P was in that room. Just because one bass sounds good/bad does not mean that they'll all sound good/bad.



I wouldn't say that. Switching from alnico to ceramic would be a huge difference and you'd certainly notice it.
Click to expand...

I doubt it in a bad room.... eq is way more vital.

I could make my old p sound great in any crap gym with an old Acoustic combo's 5 band eq. Cut low crank lower highs and adjust from there.

recording or practicing tho is more where subtle things are apparent
 
#525
Dave W said:
Just sharing my experience

EDIT: Actually, you doubt what? That one could notice a difference between a ceramic pickup or an alnico pickup in a bad room?
Click to expand...
Yea.... bad rooms destroy the nice things about pickup swaps imho. Extreme changes like totally different basses and configs can be significant though.

Just my own experiences lol... i dont want to see good money going to waste. And stingray pups are exceptional already..... ceramic has more mids so might lose more presence with alnico in bad room if change is audible in room at all.

im very distracted right now so hope im remembering point of thread ok lol
 
#527
Yep ceramic pickups will do that. They are not always the prettiest thing by themselves but when the room is bad or the mix is busy, they cut through really nicely. I have a SD Stingray ceramic and also their Alnico version of that pickup on the way that I will be comparing with an actual MM pickup.
 
#528
My pickup test will include 4 pickups: two Seymour Duncan, an original Stingray Music Man and a Nordstrand MM4.2.
My bass is a recent Stingray Classic 4 strings with Labella Nylon flatwound and a 2 band EQ.

The factory pickup was certainly capturing the Stingray tone but left me wanting for more particularly after I tested a vintage Stingray from 1983.

Seymour Duncan SMB-4a (alnico)
Huge difference compared with the original factory installed pickup. More of everything, a lot more output, more clarity, more punch, more articulation.
Bass and highs are also more pronounced. The pickup has the ability of making notes jump off the speaker and dance. The pickup is also warm and very well balanced. It is as if a veil had been lifted and my instrument really started shining and singing. Very, very impressive.

Seymour Duncan SMB-4d (ceramic).
Another beautiful sounding pickup from Seymour Duncan. Again it sounds a lot better than the factory/original pickup and delivers a lot more output. This one is a puncher, which is what I expect from ceramic. It cuts through the mix and takes no prisoners! Paired with my Bergantino NV610, this pickup was right at home particularly pushed by the big trannies of my SVT. What a punch! Notes seem to leave the Berg with a high amount of immediacy and velocity. Tonally is a hair colder than the previous one, it can sound a hair sterile at time but I am kind of nitpicking here. It never sounds harsh however. The pickup has more highs than the previous one but note here that my strings don't deliver a huge amount of highs so it's a little hard to judge. The bass appears to be more pronounced that the previous pickup. The SD documentation says the contrary but I get a different tonal center which translate in a kind of dubby bass when the tone correction on the bass is turned all the way up.

So far I am very impressed by both Seymour Duncan pickups. These guys really deliver great pickups at nice price points. They are very well engineered and sound exactly like a Stingray. They delivery the Alnico tone and the ceramic tone perfectly. By itself the Alnico is prettier, it delivers that warm but punchy tone very nicely. The ceramic pickup is more punchy and is a great choice for more aggressive music (metal, punk, rap, funk) and busy mix. That being said in a live situation I don't think I could differentiate them if I was in the audience. It really boils down to a matter of taste and also the rig used.

The alnico sounds more vintage but does not captures the tone of the 1983 vintage pickup I have tested. The cermic pickup is more modern sounding.

I have been impressed by the quality of my Stingray, Music Man works hard on the details and components. The quality of the wood and fret job is exceptional. It is an expensive bass so it's expected but still it's nice to see.

That being said, just like Fender until the introduction of the True Vintage pickups, the factory pickups are lackluster and don't deliver as much tone as the Seymour Duncan. I am not sure why? Is it a cost saving issue? Is it because they are not a pickup specialist?

Seymour Duncan produces several hundreds of different pickups so they obviously have huge internal resources and expertise. When a company does just one thing, and has for a long time it gets really good at it. They also have to outperform the original manufacturers otherwise they could not stay in business. Changing a pickup is an easy fix but when I buy an instrument that close to $2K it should be breath taking straight out of the box.

Anyways these are my impressions so far. The Nordstrand will be here next week so I'll add my notes. This pickup is really hyped on Talk Bass so we will see if it lives up to its reputation.
 
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#531
Might you have the chance or opportunity to test the Aguilar AG 4M MM replacement pup? The demo on Facebook sounds really good...

While I'm 100% satisfied with the ceramic pup in my 98 5-string MM, I"m kinda interested in this one...
 
#534
I have been impressed by Aguilar's work. They are making wonderful products and the P bass pickup I tested from Aguilar sounded just like the Lollar. Lollar is a reference for vintage pickups and I was impressed they sounded as good as an industry standard right out of the gate. Aguilar is a relative newcomer to the world of pickups but they seem to be very talented at it. Their Stingray pickup sounds very good in the demo but there are only so much I am able to test.
 
#535
Laurent said:
I have been impressed by Aguilar's work. They are making wonderful products and the P bass pickup I tested from Aguilar sounded just like the Lollar. Lollar is a reference for vintage pickups and I was impressed they sounded as good as an industry standard right out of the gate. Aguilar is a relative newcomer to the world of pickups but they seem to be very talented at it. Their Stingray pickup sounds very good in the demo but there are only so much I am able to test.
Click to expand...

I just got a project Precision V finished up (Nords, preamp, severe neck issue remedied, and all on a new damn Fender. Oh, well), I'm about to tackle my fretless Jazz Bass V with Nords and a pre, and once I get over that, I just may get the Aguilar and try it. Like I said, I'm really happy with the MM's stock pickup, but I'm getting curious and the change-out will be easy enough. I gotta be careful with the MM though, it's my go-to instrument.

Stay tuned (sorta)...
 
#538
The dual preamp Sterling is finished ... and it's everything I was hoping for.

A little history, I acquired the Sterling at a dirt cheap price because the previous owner
tried a DIY mod putting a Duncan "Stingray" pickup in and trying to attach it to the stock
Sterling preamp, they did not play well together. Rather than get a Sterling style pickup
I decided to use a variation on the Warwick Pro M pickup/preamp system, as I had fond
memories of that setup in my 1997 Warwick Pro M 5.

The system uses each coil as a separate pickup, with a volume control and 2 band preamp
on each coil. Because this is designed to be my go-to live bass having hum-cancelling was a
priority, lots of neon and wiring issues in some of these venues, so my pickup of choice was
the Nordstrand MM4.4 quad coil. For preamps I called David Meadows at Audere and he made
me a system using two of the "classic" series preamps wired together.

I play mostly blues, classic R and B, and some blues rock, and for years had been using a
1973 Fender Jazz Bass or my 1968 Precision, the Jazz when I send the signal through a pedal
board as I need the ability to adjust the signal depending on the effect used. The Precision when
I need the fat classic P-bass sound straight to the amp, the Sterling had to pull off the "essence" of
each of those classic sounds plus the Stingray vibe when needed.

When I got the bass home I set about the task of setting up the presets if you will, with the switch
in the neck position (only the neck coil) I set the volume and tone to get close to the P-bass vibe using
a simple A/B between the two basses using a Mark Bass LM II set flat through a Euphonic Audio VL-110 cab.
Using the same method I set the bridge position (only the bridge coil) to emulate the bridge pickup on the
73 Jazz, the set screws on the knobs all facing up tells me the gain and tone are in what I call the
"classic stock" positions. The middle position is both coils on and it has a fat warm sound with just a
hint of the Music Man top end zing. If I want more, just roll more highs, in fact the tonal possibilities
are almost infinite, and the Classic Ray tone is there and easy to dial in (its wired parallel).

For me it's the perfect gig bass it wears Ernie Ball series 4 flat wounds ( the Fenders have TI flats)
and it has the smaller body and fast J-Bass style neck. The tones are easy and fast to dial in; a real
plus on stage ... I very pleased with this different take on the MM design.

Thanks to Carey Nordstrand and David Meadows for their help in the project (and such great products)
And special thanks to my tech Mike Stoker Memphis TN for making it happen ...

Sterling_zps7699c59f.jpg
 
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#540
After testing four different Music Man stingray pickups here is my order of personal preference:

Seymour Duncan Alnico SM4-a
Seymour Duncan Ceramic SM4-d
Music Man original pickup
Nordstrand MM4.2

The premise of the Duncan Alnico and the Nordstrand are the same: capture the tone of a 76-77 Stingray pickup.
The problem with this goal is the tone itself is a soft target, as stated before these pickups were handwound and it's been reported to me that there are some very wide variations from one pickup to the next. Also the number of instrument made and their survival rate probably limits the number of examples a manufacturer could influence himself from. Also note here that pickups are highly subjective and they both have to match the musician playing style, the instrument and the strings.

So when it comes to the Nordstrand it has been reported to me by a gentleman who owns a 70's Stingray that it perfectly match his original pickup. My premise here was not to find a 70's tone but to improve upon the pickup of my brand new classic Musicman Stingray that left me wanting for more.

The Nordstrand MM4.2 itself stands alone in this group. Tonally it has a spicy character, call that a scoop in the mids. It's capable of a huge amount of bass output and is a tad more moderate in the highs than the Seymour Duncan Alnico. The overall output of the Nordstrand is somewhere between the Seymour Duncan Alnico and the factory original. The pickup has a vintage vibe that is really cool. So what is it I did not like about the Nordstrand? Simply I liked the tone of the SD Alnico better which not as vintagy but bigger and warmer. The Nordstrand did not always have as much string balance as the SD or the Stingray factory original for that matter. I think I did not like it as much for the same reason some musicians like it so much, it has its own personality. It does not mean I think of it as a lesser pickup, it's just that I preferred the SD with my strings on my bass and to my ears.

To take the two most famous Stingray tones as benchmarks, I would say that the Nordstand would be a better pickup to duplicate the Louis Johnson tone, meanwhile the Seymour Duncan Alnico sounds closer to Bernard Edwards tone. And I also realize that the tone of each musician had a lot to do with EQ and playing technique.
 
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