• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Music Man sound and pickups

#581
Darkstrike said:
Niiice!
Click to expand...
Darkstrike said:
That's what they call a Baxandall tone circut, IIRC, Bass is flat at 2, Mids are flat at 10, and Treble is flat at 2 or there abouts.
Click to expand...
A passive baxandall tone circuit acts like an active bass and treble. Flat is with both controls centered. The midrange in an Ampeg is a separate active circuit with true cut and boost. Center is flat. The bass and treble are not interactive.

The Fender tone stack is highly interactive and there is an inherent mid cut, thus requiring turning the bass and treble down and cranking the mid to get close to "flat." Marshall and Vox, as well as Mesa and many others use variations of the same tone stack.

Ampeg's tone controls are much different. There is no interaction between controls. Other characteristics of the preamp cause the "flat" settings to be slightly off noon, but noon is pretty close.

The inherent mid cut of the Fender tone stack is not a bad thing. It produces the characteristic guitar tone we all know and love. With say, a B15, with baxandall bass and treble, boosting the bass and treble creates something that sounds like cut mids. Cut the bass and treble (turning up the volume to compensate for any loss) causes what sounds like a mid boost.

I have a Bassman 100 I heavily modified. The bass channel is an Ampeg B-15 type preamp, and the normal channel is a Fender type, tuned down and octave for bass. The B-15 channel, while more simple than the other channel's interactive bass, treble, midrange, and mid slope control, has more clarity, punch and presence.
 
#582
I built an inexpensive, MM type 5 string, with a maple neck, very lightweight P type body, OLP bridge, inexpensive ceramic MM pickup and originally a three band EQ with sweepable mids.

It sounded great. I have no idea if it's close to a MM but It has great punch and range.

Last month, I built a MM 2 band EQ. I read a lot on MM preamps and true to the best testing I saw on the design, the bass is boost only, but the treble is boost and cut. The treble also rolls off around 10k, which I suppose was supposed to give this rather primitive design, a more passive type voice.

I put it in my bass and absolutely love it. It's got "something" the 3 band didn't. I have my pickup wired in parallel. I had tried a series/parallel switch, but found the series to sound not much different than parallel...just louder, and the 9v preamp didn't like louder. Parallel was loud enough.

I have the extra hole. I put in a passive 6 position switch to select different small caps to lower the resonant peak of the pickup and take off some treble, like a simplified Tonestyler. It changes the characteristics of the pickup, rolling off high end and adding high mid punch. Very useful.

I love the 2 band EQ. Great presence in the band, and it records really well. Plenty of high end (I like high end) but different than the highs of my 3 band EQ. The 3 band was more versatile, but the 2 band has "IT."
 
  • Like
Reactions: blindrabbit
#583
:DChilis:D said:
Hello everyone,

I've been recently getting into more fingerstyle for lounge and slow heavy minor funk groove type of music. Music that makes you just wanna go UGH. The stock EBMM pickup on my Stingray is a little bit too twangy for me. Any pickup recommendations for me to have a smooth buttery tone with just a tiny bit of growl with more bass low mid presence while maintaining a warm upper mid range and clean but not shrill highs? My stingray is from 2005 I think. How much does the preamp contribute to the sound I want?

Kind regards :)
Click to expand...
Recommendation: P Bass
Not being a smart ***, but reading your specific comments regarding the styles you're focusing on and the particular tonal concerns that you have, to me, scream P Bass.
Please excuse my suggestion if you find it irrelevant.
 
#584
I'm swapping the stock 3 band preamp in my SR5 with a Nordstrand MM-2B. I have a 2012 SR5 single pickup. I'm not planning to use the blade switch for series options, just the default parallel setting. The stock EBMM pickup has four wires - red, white, green, red. Trying to figure out how to connect to the preamp. White wire is hot but not sure if other 3 need to be connected together and grounded or just a couple of them.
 
#585
Ok, I'll now answer my own question. First, I wasn't able to find any wiring diagrams that gave details on the pickup wires. I was able to extrapolate and experiment to find the right combinations which I found were not very intuitive.

In any case for parallel output:

Positive - black & red
Negative - white & green

Measured output is about 2.4K.

BTW, loving the bass with the Nordstrand 2 band preamp. Installing a dummy pot and disconnected blade switch so everything will look stock. Would be great if EBMM decided to offer a switchable 2 and 3 band EQ. Just taking the mid out won't work since eq curves are different but shouldn't be that hard to do. I guess the John East comes closest to that but a bit pricey.

Now to decide if I want to swap stock pickup for a Nordie 5.2
 
#586
From what I can tell of the 2 different preamps, the differences in how they work is what makes them hard to do a 2/3 band switchable setup. I'm sure someone who knows more about the technical aspects could edumacate us more on the how and why of everything...

The 2 band uses a 100k log pot for the treble control and a 1M reverse log pot for the bass control.
The 3 band uses 50k linear pots all around for tone controls.

I had a Lowend Jazz with the 2/3 band eq and that's a cool setup, for sure. I just think designing such a pre for MM would require something new that would likely detract from what people like about the 2 and/or 3 band preamps that they currently make.
 
#588
Britbonic said:
Would be great if EBMM decided to offer a switchable 2 and 3 band EQ. Just taking the mid out won't work since eq curves are different but shouldn't be that hard to do. I guess the John East comes closest to that but a bit pricey
Click to expand...

The John East is not close at all.
It's essentially a 2EQ with an added sweepable mids control. The mid control can be set flat, leaving a 2EQ. But it does not replicate at all the 3EQ when you engage the mids, because the controls all act differently from a 3EQ.
However, I would not see that as a drawback, the 3 band MMSR John East preamp is fantastic and I much prefer it to either of the original preamps.
 
#589
East preamps are amazing, and though I've never tried the MM versions, I have no doubt that they are incredibly well designed.
And it should be said, though I have both of the MM preamps in basses I have, I prefer the 2B slightly. No hatred at all to the 3, but I just like the 2 better for what I do.
Some day, I hope to try the East 3B.
 
#590
Question on the 2-band vs 3-band thing...

I leave the EQ controls of my 3-band Ray H set to flat 100% of the time. I prefer to do what tone control I need at the amp. Is it correct that there's no flat detention on the 2-bands?

I'm asking because as much as I love the sound of the stock pup and preamp, I love to fix things that ain't broke...;). I'm considering an as-yet-undetermined replacement pup (probably a Nord as they have served me so well in my two Fenders) and an East replacement preamp. Since I don't use the onboard EQ, will either East 2b or 3b preamp have the same tone?

Thanx.
 
#591
bassgod0dmw said:
For what you describe I'd try the Bartolini pickup.

A ceramic pickup wired in series is not what I'd recommend. They are very aggressive and in your face. Nothing smooth or mellow about it.
Click to expand...



Has anybody used the Bart's with the stock preamp? Been thinking about trying them in my Sterling HH.

I do have an extra NTMB. I wouldn't want drill a hole for the mid switch.

Also, could I incorporate the 5 way blade switch or would I need to stick with the pan knob.
 
#594
Geri O said:
I'm asking because as much as I love the sound of the stock pup and preamp, I love to fix things that ain't broke...;). I'm considering an as-yet-undetermined replacement pup (probably a Nord as they have served me so well in my two Fenders) and an East replacement preamp. Since I don't use the onboard EQ, will either East 2b or 3b preamp have the same tone?
Click to expand...

Unlike the Ernie Ball 3 band vs. 2 band the East MMSR preamps are all based on the 2-band topology. The 3-band adds his excellent mid module that when set flat is totally transparent. As such you get 2-band MM tone with the addition of a mid control.

I have the East MMSR 3-band with a Nordstrand MM5.2 in a bass and it sounds really good. It does not sound like a modern Stingray, but does the 70s 'ray thing really well, and has quite a bit of range beyond that with the additional mid EQ and bright switch (pull on the treble).
 
#595
Ex and Jeff, thanx for the info...

Like I said, I love to experiment and see what can happen with something that works perfectly well. I'm back to thinking that as I like the sound of my bass just fine. I'm not familiar with the 70s MM sound and I'm sure it's awesome, but I don't want a big change with what I already have. So I may shelve this idea for a while. I actually have a 78, I think (gotta remove the neck and get the number) 4-string on permanent loan that is having the preamp examined to see if it can be repaired. It doesn't look good, but my electronics guy loves a challenge, so we'll see what happens. That one may be my test bed for playing with replacement pups and preamps.
 
#596
mcnach said:
The John East is not close at all.
It's essentially a 2EQ with an added sweepable mids control. The mid control can be set flat, leaving a 2EQ. But it does not replicate at all the 3EQ when you engage the mids, because the controls all act differently from a 3EQ.
However, I would not see that as a drawback, the 3 band MMSR John East preamp is fantastic and I much prefer it to either of the original preamps.
Click to expand...
I understand it's a different animal and how the sweepable mids work. And I considered one for a long time before getting the Nordstrand. I was just suggesting that it's the closest thing available to what I was describing. My guess is you can get close to most 2 band and 3 band setting more easily with the East than with either a 2 or 3 band MM or aftermarket version. Nothing short of having 2 different preamps in the bass would give you all possible options.
I chose the Nordstrand 2 band cause I wanted to keep it simple. Having briefly owned a mm classic, I found it was much easier to dial in the tone I like. With the 3 band, always feel like in messing with the eq on gigs.
 
#597
Geri O said:
Ex and Jeff, thanx for the info...

Like I said, I love to experiment and see what can happen with something that works perfectly well. I'm back to thinking that as I like the sound of my bass just fine. I'm not familiar with the 70s MM sound and I'm sure it's awesome, but I don't want a big change with what I already have. So I may shelve this idea for a while. I actually have a 78, I think (gotta remove the neck and get the number) 4-string on permanent loan that is having the preamp examined to see if it can be repaired. It doesn't look good, but my electronics guy loves a challenge, so we'll see what happens. That one may be my test bed for playing with replacement pups and preamps.
Click to expand...
Should be pretty easy to get the 78 fixed. If the original one isn't covered in epoxy should be fixable. It's a pretty simple design. If the preamp is toast, you can probably get a replacement directly from Ernie Ball or grab a Nordstrand.
If you like sound of the 3 band flat, the 2 band will sound a lot different.
 
#598
In my DIY MM, I used a cheap, 4 conductor wire ceramic pickup. I've been happy with the tone, especially with a 2 band MM pickup, but I like high end. The pickup may be an Artec. I don't remember.

I found a Wilkinson MM5 with a solid cover. It is more highly wound at around 7k per coil while the one in my bass is 4k per coil. I put the Wilkinson in my bass, wired in parallel, and it was dark, dark, dark.

I listened carefully, and put the Artec back in. The Artec seemed excessively bright by comparison. But, I can roll back the treble, and/or use my cap to ground rotary switch.

I don't have a MM to compare to, but I did use the Manta model (the Stingray model) in my Variax bass as a standard. By comparison, the Artec is brighter, but easily trimmed to match the Manta model. The Wilkinson is just too dark, although I can match the Wilkinson tone with the Manta model or Artec.

I'm happy with the Artec and two band MM preamp. At church, I found it extremely versatile despite the simplicity. The three band with mid shift I had in there earlier was more versatile, but the two band just "gets it."
 
#599
Getting the notice on this thread reminded me to post my experiences. I went with the Nordstrand 5.2 because it was a drop in for my MTD Kingston Artist, and the East 3-band pickup. I could not imagine a brighter sounding bass made of wood. The sound is super lively and there's tons of high end sizzle, though it can be tamed, especially with the use of the mid control as a cut rather than a boost. I added a 4-position switch and the sounds are all usable. The series sound with the treble and high mids rolled off and a little bass boost is thunderous.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back