Music Man sound and pickups

[Videojunkie]

Building a custom 5 string HH musicman (at least as far as the PU and electronics go) over in the Luthiers Corner, but I figured that this group might be able to answer my question.

I am planning an HH setup probably using the Seymour Dunkin pickups (haven't decided between ALNICO and Ceramic - might do one of each)

What I want to do for controls is this: for each PU, I want to be able to select the bridge side coil, the neck side coil or the full PU in series. Then each PU will be tied into a blend pot before going into the SD preamp with master volume and 3 way tone. This way on the fly I'd be able to select either PU as a single coil or humbucker, and have effectively 4 different positions of single coils to work with.

Neck PU -> Switch -> [Blend]
Bridge PU -> Switch -> [Blend]
Blend -> Vol -> Tone -> Jack.

What I've been unsuccessful at figuring out is how to wire the 4 conductors out of the PU to the correct kind of switch to make this work.

 

[ThaCoast]

Building a custom 5 string HH musicman (at least as far as the PU and electronics go) over in the Luthiers Corner, but I figured that this group might be able to answer my question.

I am planning an HH setup probably using the Seymour Dunkin pickups (haven't decided between ALNICO and Ceramic - might do one of each)

What I want to do for controls is this: for each PU, I want to be able to select the bridge side coil, the neck side coil or the full PU in series. Then each PU will be tied into a blend pot before going into the SD preamp with master volume and 3 way tone. This way on the fly I'd be able to select either PU as a single coil or humbucker, and have effectively 4 different positions of single coils to work with.

Neck PU -> Switch -> [Blend]
Bridge PU -> Switch -> [Blend]
Blend -> Vol -> Tone -> Jack.

What I've been unsuccessful at figuring out is how to wire the 4 conductors out of the PU to the correct kind of switch to make this work.

Duncan pickups are a good choice. Alnico will yield the more classic vintage style of stingray sound, while ceramic is a more modern one.

As for your wiring per pickup.

^^^Can use an on/off/on mini switch (be it a SPST or one side of a DPDT), per pickup for maximum tone variety.

From there, you can send to the blend pot, before making way to the volume, tone & out.

 

[bassically_eli]

I am planning an HH setup probably using the Seymour Dunkin pickups (haven't decided between ALNICO and Ceramic - might do one of each)

Does the ceramic version have significantly higher output? Since you're blending passively (before the preamp), it might be a good idea to use matching pickups.

 

[ThaCoast]

Does the ceramic version have significantly higher output? Since you're blending passively (before the preamp), it might be a good idea to use matching pickups.

Higher output might be perceived, however not actuality. The Ceramic version is more mid focused (hence the punch, & agressivness), vs the Alnico which has more of a mid "scoop" - giving to a more articulate, dub clank is as best as i can describe it.

Depending what sound they're looking to achieve, i'd go Alnico Neck - Ceramic Bridge. I don't think size of the pickup casing changes too much, so they could swap positions if they didn't like the mid bumped ceramic in the bridge (or the boomier neck alnico).

EDIT: Since they're keeping it passive, & no preamp is to be had accenting one or the other pickups "characteristics", & with the North/Series/South coil selection on both, it makes for endless tones without the need of a preamp.

 

[Videojunkie]

Since they're keeping it passive, & no preamp is to be had accenting one or the other pickups "characteristics", & with the North/Series/South coil selection on both, it makes for endless tones without the need of a preamp.

I plan on using the SD musicman preamp that they pair with the ceramic version. It gives me 3 way eq (stacked treble/ bass separate mid with a push/pull volume for a different eq circuit). I really like the idea of the 2 different types of pickups for exactly the reason you mentioned.


Edit: the cases for botth pickups are identical.

Music Man System 5 String Pickup | Seymour Duncan

 

[ThaCoast]

I plan on using the SD musicman preamp that they pair with the ceramic version. It gives me 3 way eq (stacked treble/ bass separate mid with a push/pull volume for a different eq circuit). I really like the idea of the 2 different types of pickups for exactly the reason you mentioned.


Edit: the cases for botth pickups are identical.

Music Man System 5 String Pickup | Seymour Duncan

My bad, i misread as master volume & tones. With that, i'll restate my prior tone post - you'll have a massive range being able to cut/boost either pickup to specifics. The added coil isolation switches will yield more than necessary. Versatile as hell.

 

[BlueTalon]

If anyone is interested, I have a pair of Seymour Duncan MM pickups (4-string version), 1 ceramic and 1 alnico. I bought them for a project that never came together. The intent was to use the alnico pup in the neck position and the ceramic one in the bridge position.

 

[Videojunkie]

If anyone is interested, I have a pair of Seymour Duncan MM pickups (4-string version), 1 ceramic and 1 alnico. I bought them for a project that never came together. The intent was to use the alnico pup in the neck position and the ceramic one in the bridge position.

Aw man... I like 5 strings....

 

[Videojunkie]

Question that I'd like opinions on, with the SD preamp, I get 3 tone controls, Treble, Mid, Bass. I am wiring these to a solo control and a stacked control.

What are the pros and cons of B/T Mid vs M/T Bass for the stacked vs solo control? The SD preamp has a push/pull slap eq setting that also comes into play I believe it mostly affects the mid sweep, but not sure...

Picture of the custom control plate.

 

[BassLife77]

Are there any tutorials for dummies like me to learn how to solder these preamps and pickups or are these things plug and play?
IF there are video step by step tutorials please point me to the right direction as i cant seem to find them on Google.

It would be so cool to get the Ernie Ball Stingray Sound onto my Sire v7 Marcus Miller bass guitar lol.

The key to the Stingray sound is pickup placement. I would buy a Sterling Musicman bass they aren't that expensive

 

[SteveCS]

Question that I'd like opinions on, with the SD preamp, I get 3 tone controls, Treble, Mid, Bass. I am wiring these to a solo control and a stacked control.

What are the pros and cons of B/T Mid vs M/T Bass for the stacked vs solo control? The SD preamp has a push/pull slap eq setting that also comes into play I believe it mostly affects the mid sweep, but not sure...

Picture of the custom control plate.

I guess it depends on how you intend to use the controls. From a player's perspective I, and probably the majority of others if the comments here are anything to go on, find most 'use' from the mid control. The bass and treble are more set and forget - they do get tweaked for a couple of tunes but nowhere near as much as the mid control, which is, IME, where the different characters and voices are found. For those reasons I would always want mids on a separate knob.
Just one question - have you checked that the controls, i.e. pot values, are interchangeable in this way? That is to say are they all the same values and tapers? If not, you might get some strange results if you start swapping them around.

 

[Videojunkie]

I guess it depends on how you intend to use the controls. From a player's perspective I, and probably the majority of others if the comments here are anything to go on, find most 'use' from the mid control. The bass and treble are more set and forget - they do get tweaked for a couple of tunes but nowhere near as much as the mid control, which is, IME, where the different characters and voices are found. For those reasons I would always want mids on a separate knob.
Just one question - have you checked that the controls, i.e. pot values, are interchangeable in this way? That is to say are they all the same values and tapers? If not, you might get some strange results if you start swapping them around.

The SD preamp uses linear 100K pots for the tone controls (I've been talking with their customer support to confirm this). So I am replacing 2 of the pre-wired ones with a stacked control to fit the custom faceplate.

Thank you for confirming my initial reaction which was B/T Mid for the control layout.

 

[Videojunkie]

Do you guys recommend 9v or 18v for the SD preamp?

I'm working from scratch, so it just changes which battery box I need.

 

[ThaCoast]

Do you guys recommend 9v or 18v for the SD preamp?

I'm working from scratch, so it just changes which battery box I need.

18V will give you more headroom overall. If the Duncan preamp can operate on 18V, & you wish to have more "clean" headroom in your stingray build, go for it. If not, go 9V - you'll still have enough headroom, the EQ might "shift" for lack of better description.

 

[Videojunkie]

I upgraded my Spector to 18v, and the EMG definitely loved the extra oomph.

I'll double check on the SD. Was looking to see if there was a consensus about which is better.

 

[ThaCoast]

I upgraded my Spector to 18v, and the EMG definitely loved the extra oomph.

I'll double check on the SD. Was looking to see if there was a consensus about which is better.

Not exactly, really depends what you're looking for out of the preamp itself/sound.

 

[Baker69]

I’ve just ordered a Nordstrand MM5.2 pickup for my Sterling SUB Ray 5, after reading through many postings it seems to be a good option and the model that I’m getting has the same 15.25mm string spacing at the pickup as the stock one so it will look ‘correct’.

It appears that the Nordstrand gives an authentic Pre EBMM kind of sound, I’m not really sure what this means? I’ve previously owned an early 2000’s EBMM SR5 which had a ceramic pickup, and I did like the sound of it. The Nordstrand is an Alnico pickup though, so I’m assuming it will have a slightly warmer sound?

Can anyone advise how the Nordstrand will sound compared with the stock Sterling SUB Ray 5 pickup? I do like the sound of the stock pickup, it is very powerful and both deep and cutting but sounds a bit harsh at times and seems to be a bit lacking in the mids? Whether it is the pickup that is too powerful or the preamp I don’t know but I can only have the volume on the bass at about 2/3rds otherwise it will distort. If it is the pickup then I’m assuming that the Nordstrand will be less powerful and I may be happy with the sound, if not the next option is to fit either a Retrovibe Stinger preamp, or ultimately a John East 3 band preamp.

 

[Artman]

Whether it is the pickup that is too powerful or the preamp I don’t know but I can only have the volume on the bass at about 2/3rds otherwise it will distort. If it is the pickup then I’m assuming that the Nordstrand will be less powerful and I may be happy with the sound, if not the next option is to fit either a Retrovibe Stinger preamp, or ultimately a John East 3 band preamp.

It's the pickup.
I have a SBMM Ray 4 that exhibited the same distortion when boosting either treble or bass. I installed the Seymour Duncan alnico pickup wired in Parallel, not Series.
Using the SD with the oem SBMM preamp, there is no audible distortion. Not even if I boost both treble and bass to full gas.

I switched my Ray's preamp over to a MojoTone pre only because I wanted an even more "authentic" StingRay experience without the price tag.

Note that the MojoTone pre uses pots that do not have a center detent, so you have no real way to find absolute center. Just like a late 1970's MM 2band Stingray. I start with Bass and Treble at full off then roll bass and treble up to suit my taste. The MojoTone Pre appears to me to have a fuller sound with more boost on tap, but the oem preamp sounds really good with the SD as well, just not quite as much boost available.

I think your Nordstrand will most likely solve your distortion issue.

I'm having a real internal struggle now because of this bass. It's the least expensive bass guitar I have ever owned, and there have been many through the decades, but I find myself playing it more often now than any of my others which are each worth a lot more money than this Sub. It just has that special something. Balance, feel, sound, looks even, although that's a matter of individual preference.

 

[Baker69]

I'm having a real internal struggle now because of this bass. It's the least expensive bass guitar I have ever owned, and there have been many through the decades, but I find myself playing it more often now than any of my others which are each worth a lot more money than this Sub. It just has that special something. Balance, feel, sound, looks even, although that's a matter of individual preference.

This is my exact situation as well! This is my go to bass now, really love it. I’m looking forward to getting and installing the Nordstrand and it will then be even better. I do still plan to wire it in Series, I don’t slap so I don’t really want it wired in parallel, I want the fullness in sound that you get with the Stingray in Series mode but I am still up for fitting a toggle switch and having both options.

I’m going to wait for the outcome with the Nordstrand before making any decisions on changing the preamp.

 

[Artman]

This is my exact situation as well! This is my go to bass now, really love it. I’m looking forward to getting and installing the Nordstrand and it will then be even better. I do still plan to wire it in Series, I don’t slap so I don’t really want it wired in parallel, I want the fullness in sound that you get with the Stingray in Series mode but I am still up for fitting a toggle switch and having both options.

I’m going to wait for the outcome with the Nordstrand before making any decisions on changing the preamp.

Good call waiting on a preamp. It's going to still sound really good with the stock pre. I do very little slap, but it's still pretty darn full and punchy wired parallel. My experience is that series wiring yields a very hot output signal, the output level in parallel is more moderate.
Maybe the series/parallel toggle will be my next mod!