Hi All, I'm playing in the Addams Family pit that calls for both upright and electric. My plan is to send my upright through my Fdeck preamp into the FX return to bypass the amp's preamp as it's an electric bass amplifier, and my electric into the input of the amp to utilize the other preamp. Will the FX return being plugged in disable the preamp completely or can I use this setup? I'll also be using this setup in a big band where I'm required to double. If this is a good idea, should I use an 18v power supply rather than a 9v battery or does it not matter? Thanks for your help everyone.
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Double Bass Musical Pit Orchestra Doubling
- Thread starter noah-upright
- Start date
The feasibility of using your effects return as a quasi-second channel is going to depend on the type of amp that you have. Effects loops in amps, IME, often run at line level, so even if the effect return could serve as a second input of sorts, the signal level coming out of the F deck might not be strong enough for a line level input. I've owned amps that have a Preamp Out and Power Amp in, which are sometimes (but not always) instrument level signals. Plugging into the Power Amp In ,however, usually interrupts the circuit (as in, the amp is expecting to receive a signal that exited the amp via the Preamp Out), effectively disabling the preamp if plugging an external sound source into the Power Amp In. Again, this is all dependent on the intent of the amp designer, so I'd recommend reading the owner's manual to see if there's any guidance on the limits of the different inputs and outputs on your particular amp.
I use my Genzler Magellan amps in a similar fashion, though I plug an external preamp into the "Aux In" on the back of the amp that is capable of sending a hot enough signal. It has worked really well for those occasions when I am doubling.
Regarding the voltage level/output gain on the F deck - would there be any improvement in performance running at 18v? Francis Deck is a member on here @fdeck and may get back to you if you message him.
I use my Genzler Magellan amps in a similar fashion, though I plug an external preamp into the "Aux In" on the back of the amp that is capable of sending a hot enough signal. It has worked really well for those occasions when I am doubling.
Regarding the voltage level/output gain on the F deck - would there be any improvement in performance running at 18v? Francis Deck is a member on here @fdeck and may get back to you if you message him.
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I think my amp along with having an fx return also has an aux in, but I figured this input would color the tone too much. I could borrow a more powerful preamp as well that would drive the power amp enough I think, I just need to do some test with my amp. Worst comes to worst I can just unplug the FX return when i need to switch to electric, that's just slightly more work than stepping on a tuner pedal, and sometimes the switches can be very quick in musical books. Thanks for your help! I'll reach out to fDeck in PMs.
Some guys use one of these: BOSS - LS-2 | Line Selector
The common way is to have completely separate signal path for each instrument, and then set the ls-2 to switch between them, using it to balance the volumes. I think you can even set it up to cycle A-B-mute, if that works for you. Then use the amp eq for the room/pit conditions.
The common way is to have completely separate signal path for each instrument, and then set the ls-2 to switch between them, using it to balance the volumes. I think you can even set it up to cycle A-B-mute, if that works for you. Then use the amp eq for the room/pit conditions.
That would work except im trying to bypass the gross ampeg preamp as far as upright goes. I may just have to deal with it. Thanks for the suggestion!
I doubt it. In the first stage it would enlarge the possible voltage swing to be undistorted, but does not amplify the signal. No idea if it has a bad influence on the HPF part.
I am a big fan of the foot switch (as opposed to turning down and/or unplugging) when speed is of the essence – which it will of course be, sooner or later.
I've been using a Radial Bigshot I/O for years.
I am also a big fan of my HPF-Pre, which I've been using with the 9V battery without issue for years. I would only think about upping to 18V for the purpose of sharing a power source with another unit that required it. (Checking w/ fDeck beforehand sounds like a good idea.)
In theory it's nice to have a super hi-fi channel for DB; in practice, an Ampeg preamp set relatively flat has never bothered me too much.
YMMV. Break a leg!
I've been using a Radial Bigshot I/O for years.
I am also a big fan of my HPF-Pre, which I've been using with the 9V battery without issue for years. I would only think about upping to 18V for the purpose of sharing a power source with another unit that required it. (Checking w/ fDeck beforehand sounds like a good idea.)
In theory it's nice to have a super hi-fi channel for DB; in practice, an Ampeg preamp set relatively flat has never bothered me too much.
YMMV. Break a leg!
Since the HPFpre hardly sucks current from the battery, I‘m pretty sure that a current piloting resistor and a Zener-Diode of 9 or 10 volts would bring the voltage down for the HPFpre.
Thank you! I think this sounds good! I'll buy a true bypass A/B and Tuner to be able to mute audio and switch,
One last thing, since I am buffering an upright would it be smarter to put my preamp after the A/B pedal to make use of it on both instruments or before the A/B pedal?
I've always inserted the HPF-Pre before the switcher – for DB only.
My BGs signal usually don't need a buffer, the way the DB piezo pickup almost always does.
Another major consideration: matching levels. (The raw DB signal is usually hotter than most BGs; I can even that out by backing off on the HPF-Pre volume control. Somewhere between noon & 3 o'clock, depending on the BG.)
As always YMMV.
Tuner after the switch sounds very sensible. (Shouldn't need to engage it to mute every time you change instruments, though. That's one extra step - actually two - that you won't always have time for.)
My BGs signal usually don't need a buffer, the way the DB piezo pickup almost always does.
Another major consideration: matching levels. (The raw DB signal is usually hotter than most BGs; I can even that out by backing off on the HPF-Pre volume control. Somewhere between noon & 3 o'clock, depending on the BG.)
As always YMMV.
Tuner after the switch sounds very sensible. (Shouldn't need to engage it to mute every time you change instruments, though. That's one extra step - actually two - that you won't always have time for.)
I’ve been doubling in musical theater pits for many decades. An A/B pedal is absolutely the way to go. For years, I used a Morley ABY pedal, until it finally became unreliable. I now use a Radial Big Shot I/O second generation. I had the first generation, but its lack of a LED indicator as to which channel was active was very problematic. This is corrected in the second generation. The Big Shot is quiet when switching channels, and has a volume adjustment on one channel to equalize between your instruments.
My general approach is to set the amp gain, preamp volume, and eq (in my case, either a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 or NeoPak 3.5) for electric (most often my Roscoe Beck 5), which is plugged into one channel of the Radial Big Shot. Then I set my upright (‘39 Kay with Gage copper Realest pu) into an older Fishman Pro Platinum bass preamp, which gives me the > 1 megOhm input impedance, phase switch, variable hpf, 5 bands of graphic eq, gain and volume into the other Big Shot channel. I adjust the eq parameters on the Fishman to work with the eq on my amp. The balance between the two instruments is adjusted by the volume control on the one channel of the Big Shot.
Recently, I’ve had good results with both electric and upright both going through a Magellan Pre/DI. It has a suitable input impedance for piezo p/u, and the variable hpf and two variable contour settings and three band eq with semi-parametric mids were good for both instruments
It does get more difficult when more than two instruments are called for, most often adding fretless electric. For instance, Fun Home calls for 5 string, Precision, Hoffner, fretless, and upright. In those cases, I either put a second A/B pedal in the electric chain, or if I have time, mute and unplug to change instruments. Those are often not particularly fun times.
Addams Family is a fun show, and surprisingly challenging for some of the tunes. I seem to recall some higher thumb position, up to a high Db, and some pretty quick changes between electric and upright. Have fun with it!
My general approach is to set the amp gain, preamp volume, and eq (in my case, either a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 or NeoPak 3.5) for electric (most often my Roscoe Beck 5), which is plugged into one channel of the Radial Big Shot. Then I set my upright (‘39 Kay with Gage copper Realest pu) into an older Fishman Pro Platinum bass preamp, which gives me the > 1 megOhm input impedance, phase switch, variable hpf, 5 bands of graphic eq, gain and volume into the other Big Shot channel. I adjust the eq parameters on the Fishman to work with the eq on my amp. The balance between the two instruments is adjusted by the volume control on the one channel of the Big Shot.
Recently, I’ve had good results with both electric and upright both going through a Magellan Pre/DI. It has a suitable input impedance for piezo p/u, and the variable hpf and two variable contour settings and three band eq with semi-parametric mids were good for both instruments
It does get more difficult when more than two instruments are called for, most often adding fretless electric. For instance, Fun Home calls for 5 string, Precision, Hoffner, fretless, and upright. In those cases, I either put a second A/B pedal in the electric chain, or if I have time, mute and unplug to change instruments. Those are often not particularly fun times.
Addams Family is a fun show, and surprisingly challenging for some of the tunes. I seem to recall some higher thumb position, up to a high Db, and some pretty quick changes between electric and upright. Have fun with it!
