• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Mustang, Tapes and Flats

#21
HaphAsSard said:
That's a mistake, as are occasionally found on D'Addario produce webpages.
For a low E string, even on a 30" scale instrument, to have 15 pounds of tension, it couldn't be larger than .065" (sans the tape wrap).

The correct tension value for the D'Addario ETB92S low E (or for the one in the ETB92M set, when installed on a 30" scale platform) is correctly reported on the back of the package:

View attachment 7193026
www.guitarcenter.com

D'Addario ETB92S Black Nylon Tapewound Short Scale Bass Strings | Guitar Center

Shop for the D'Addario ETB92S Black Nylon Tapewound Short Scale Bass Strings in and receive free shipping and guaranteed lowest price.
www.guitarcenter.com www.guitarcenter.com

and it is 24.84 pounds. Just a smidgen more than the 090 low E in the Rotosound RS66S set.
Click to expand...
I've never looked at tension numbers before—I've also for the past few years mostly been using La Bella strings, who doesn't publish tension numbers for most of their strings.

Is it safe to assume then that if the tension of the low E is slightly more than the 90 E of a Rotosound set that it is perfectly usable?

Also, the tensions, beside the E, don't seem too different from TI Flats short scale (32"):

G: 32.80
D: 32.84
A: 27.66
E: 35.38

The D'Addarios are:

G: 31.17
D: 30.11
A: 27.67
E: 24.84

My guess is that there must be some people using TI flats on short scales given their popularity?
 
#22
Just Wrong said:
I've never looked at tension numbers before—I've also for the past few years mostly been using La Bella strings, who doesn't publish tension numbers for most of their strings.

Is it safe to assume then that if the tension of the low E is slightly more than the 90 E of a Rotosound set that it is perfectly usable?
Click to expand...
It really depends.

Couple considerations, in no particular order:
- that particular Roto set is *not* very well-received. It might be because of specific construction reasons, or it might be entirely due to the gauges being too light;
- my 30" instrument currently wears a 080 flatwound as a low E, and it works *for me*;
- in the recent past, guitar-scale acoustic basses were made with a steel-core bronze string complement. One in particular came with a custom, shortened version than the Ernie Ball Earthwood set, with a 095 E, whose tension at 24" scale is probably around 17 pounds. Now, while that arrangement probably did work for some people, it is perhaps not coincidental that the vast majority of those basslets come with synthetic core strings: their tension may even be a little lower than those Ernie Balls, but their note envelope is stabler, and the tone warmer.

In sum, ain't no tellin' in advance whether or not YOU will find them usable, I'm afraid. And yes, I am aware the bastids are not cheap.

Just Wrong said:
Also, the tensions, beside the E, don't seem too different from TI Flats short scale (32"):

G: 32.80
D: 32.84
A: 27.66
E: 35.38

The D'Addarios are:

G: 31.17
D: 30.11
A: 27.67
E: 24.84

My guess is that there must be some people using TI flats on short scales given their popularity?
Click to expand...
For a more direct comparison, multiply each TI value by (30/32)^2=.87890625, which gives
G: 28.82
D: 28.86
A: 24,31
E: 31.1
i.e. their tensions at 30". Apples to apples.

...They are definitely in the ballpark.
 
Last edited:
#23
michael_t said:
The problem with what @Just Wrong is trying to do is it's a thru-body Mustang. Thru-body means the ball ends don't have metal-to-metal contact with the bridge, resulting in grounding issues. Tapewounds should be top-loaded to reduce the hum, which is not an option for the OP.
Click to expand...
Grounding the string itself isn't the ultimate point of a bridge ground, its to ground your body when you touch the strings as the human body is a big noise antenna- regardless of whether a tapewound string is grounded it won't ground your body due to the nylon wrap between your fingers and the conductive metal of the string, hence the additional buzz when using tapewounds. In many cases extensively shielding the instrument (make sure to ground the shielding properly!) will eliminate the need to ground your body since the noise will have far fewer pathways into the signal path. I've found in practice that only inherently shielded pickups (like EMG actives) will be reliably silent with tapewounds, though I've put tapes on some other shielded passive instruments and found them quiet enough in most venues.
Just Wrong said:
I'm planning on getting a Mustang with a string-through-body bridge and had a few questions about strings.

D'Addario Black Nylon Tape Wounds would be my first choice, but while I love low-tension strings, I'm a bit worried about the nylons' tension on a short-scale bass.

According to TB's Mustang Wiki page, the Mustang takes the medium-scale gauge D'Addario Black Nylon Tape Wounds. If I wanted to get an idea of the tension using D'Addario's tension calculator, would I need to look at the medium- or short-scale set since they're going on a short-scale bass?

Has anyone tried them? How was the tension? Someone in the tapes club said they were fine, similar to TI Jazz Flats, but a YouTuber said he tend to bend sharp.

I was thinking maybe I could try La Bella's, but I did try Pyramid's on a 34-inch scale bass once and found the gauge way too big: 55-75-95-112. The La Bella's are even bigger at 60-70-94-115, but I guess now that I've been playing a six-string bass with D60-A80-E100-B118, I could maybe make it work... But then I would need a new nut if I wanted to go back to regular gauges...

Next question: I've read that tapes with a string-through-body bridge are 100% going to buzz. Is there any veracity to this claim?

Now, if tapes don't work, I was going to go with La Bellas. La Bella has the Mustang Deep Talkin', but, according to TB's Mustang Wiki page, the LTF in medium scale also work. Do people who've tried both have a preference over one or the other? Has anyone who tried the LTF in medium scale find that the G string is overly bright—and stays that way—compared to the rest of the strings, like the long-scale set?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
As mentioned in another comment, tapewounds are in most cases a roundwound string with nylon wrap around it- the nylon adds significantly to the gauge measurement but adds nothing to the tension of the string inside it. So those heavy gauge tapewounds are usually pretty much identical in tension to a typical 45-105 or 50-105 set of rounds (since that's what they are under the wrap).

As far as the "buzz"- read above. String grounding is about trying to ground your body while you play, and tapewounds won't do that regardless of how they are strung since the nylon insulates you from the conductive part of the string. Either you need extensive shielding (may or may not be 100% effective dependent on the bass) or active pickups (EMGs and other actives often have really effective internal shielding, probably the best thing about actives is how noise-resistant they can be) to block that buzz from getting into the signal or you need to ground your body a different way (an old studio trick is to tape a wire to your skin under your waistband and ground it on the other end by attaching it either to the bridge of your bass or around the sleeve part of your instrument output jack/cable).
 
#24
One of my students plays a 1965 CAR Mustang and couldn't get her off tapes fast enough. It is a bass she inherited from her grandfather, whose whole thing was indistinct thumping on the root and fifth. Hardly a slam on tapes, for (to my ear) tapes are astonishingly beautiful on one of our coach's Pedulla.

Mustang =/= Pedulla no matter how you cut it lol.

Every bass finds its own strings, IMO/IME.
 
#25
sunbeast said:
As mentioned in another comment, tapewounds are in most cases a roundwound string with nylon wrap around it- the nylon adds significantly to the gauge measurement but adds nothing to the tension of the string inside it. So those heavy gauge tapewounds are usually pretty much identical in tension to a typical 45-105 or 50-105 set of rounds (since that's what they are under the wrap).
Click to expand...
The thing about the heavier gauge La Bella strings is that I've tried heavier gauge tapes before (Pyramids: 55, 75, 95, 112) and didn't like how big they were.

That being said, I've been playing six-string basses for about a year now. My first one was strung with white La Bella tapes: D65, A85, E105, B135 and the one I have now with La Bella rounds: D60, A80, E100, B118. So I assume, having been used to the low B for a while now, that the heavier gauge La Bella tapes wouldn't be so bad.

What I'm worried here is that, if I don't like the tapes—because they don't sound good with the particular Mustang, or they buzz too much for my taste—I would have to get a new nut to make the La Bella 760F-MUS fit.

I asked the luthier who I plan to commission to make the bass about shielding and he said: "They're built exactly like a vintage Mustang with the same shielding as they had along."

The more I think about it, the more I should just give up and get the flats.... BUT Janek Gwizdala makes the D'Addario work on his Music Master (man I don't miss those long-winded videos people used to make 10 years ago) and they sound so good on his P bass.
 
Last edited:
#26
Just Wrong said:
The thing about the heavier gauge La Bella strings is that I've tried heavier gauge tapes before (Pyramids: 55, 75, 95, 112) and didn't like how big they were.

That being said, I've been playing six-string basses for about a year now. My first one was strung with white La Bella tapes: D65, A85, E105, B135 and the one I have now with La Bella rounds: D60, A80, E100, B118. So I assume, having been used to the low B for a while now, that the heavier gauge La Bella tapes wouldn't be so bad.

What I'm worried here is that, if I don't like the tapes—because they don't sound good with the particular Mustang, or they buzz too much for my taste—I would have to get a new nut to make the La Bella 760F-MUS fit.

I asked the luthier who I plan to commission to make the bass about shielding and he said: "They're built exactly like a vintage Mustang with the same shielding as they had along."

The more I think about it, the more I should just give up and get the flats.
Click to expand...
I have a vintage Musicmaster bass neck that had clearly had the nut slots enlarged for fat tapewounds at some point, and I've had no issues using it with standard strings using that original nut. I've also swapped B-G 5-strings to E-C using the same nut a few times (though in that case I generally need to lower the nut slots slightly). As long as the bottoms of the nut slots are properly rounded the string tension keeps thinner strings from moving in any problematic way in the nut slots for me, though of course an ideal nut is cut to fit the strings you are actually using. That said, I'm personally a much bigger fan of flatwounds on a short-scale than tapes (I love tapes on the right long-scale though)
 
#27
I don’t know if this helps or not but I have had a set of medium scale D'Addario nylon tapes on one of these 30.75” scale basses for years and the tension feels fine to me. there is a substantial bend at the ball end of the string due to having to insert them into the acoustic guitar type bridge slots and there’s been no issue there. at least from a physical standpoint I would think that this would be similar to putting a set of medium scale tapes on a Mustang. I can’t speak to any grounding issues.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Just Wrong
#29
sunbeast said:
I have a vintage Musicmaster bass neck that had clearly had the nut slots enlarged for fat tapewounds at some point, and I've had no issues using it with standard strings using that original nut. I've also swapped B-G 5-strings to E-C using the same nut a few times (though in that case I generally need to lower the nut slots slightly). As long as the bottoms of the nut slots are properly rounded the string tension keeps thinner strings from moving in any problematic way in the nut slots for me, though of course an ideal nut is cut to fit the strings you are actually using. That said, I'm personally a much bigger fan of flatwounds on a short-scale than tapes (I love tapes on the right long-scale though)
Click to expand...
That being the case, I assume I wouldn’t have any issues if the nut is cut for the D’Addario 50-65-85-105 and I switch to the La Bella 760F-MUS, besides probably having to straighten the truss rod?
 
#31
rodl2005 said:
I wonder if the Labella white nylon tapewound would fit a mustang?

Anyone tried em?
Click to expand...
I think any medium scale string will fit a Mustang, the issue in the case of a flatwound string would probably be will the sharp bend required going string-through body damage the string or not? I’ve had the following falts on string-through basses, all without issue: D’Addario Chromes, D’Addario Tapes, TI Flats and the Fender Flats that came factory-installed on my JMJ Mustang.
 
#33
rodl2005 said:
I had the white nylon tapewounds on my 2013 Gibson EB4 a few yrs ago and loved em.
I'll have to see what I've got and see how they go on the Mustang
Click to expand...
I was trying different strings every month when COVID hit. It was a relatively cheap, easy and accessible way to try new tones as opposed to buying basses, pedals and/or amps.

I must've tried over 20 different strings.

At one point I tried the white nylon tapes and, after a month, changed to something else as per usual. I went back to the white nylons after two days with the new strings and that was the end of that.

I did not change them until I sold the bass for my current one, which, unfortunately, cannot be strung with tapes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rodl2005
#34
I was just thinking that Rob Allen strings his basses with La Bella Black Nylon Tapes and his are essentially string-through bridges, similar to the bridge on the Guild bass that I have. if he can do it I can’t imagine why a set of the proper length wouldn’t work on a Mustang.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rodl2005
#35
Just Wrong said:
Would you mind elaborating? Which have you used and which gauges? Which do you prefer in terms of tension?
Click to expand...
From about 1969 or so to around 1981 or so, they were Labellas, under $10 a pack, they were not for a short scales,yet worked well.
For a couple of years they were whatever came on my me Ibanez Artist bass, I would guess low tension.
Around
Roughly 1980 I strung my Guild with GHS "pro formula" and loved them. They were discontinued in the mid 80's or some such.
Currently using the ones that have a lions head on the label. The gauge is almost identical to whatever came on my Ibanez SR500-BP. Kinda a medium to low tension.
 
#37
HaphAsSard said:
That's a mistake, as are occasionally found on D'Addario product webpages.
For a steel-core low E string, even on a 30" scale instrument, to have 15 pounds of tension, it couldn't be larger than .065" (sans the tape wrap).

A more plausible tension value for the D'Addario ETB92S low E (or for the one in the ETB92M set, when installed on a 30" scale platform) is reported on the back of the package:

View attachment 7193026
www.guitarcenter.com

D'Addario ETB92S Black Nylon Tapewound Short Scale Bass Strings | Guitar Center

Shop for the D'Addario ETB92S Black Nylon Tapewound Short Scale Bass Strings in and receive free shipping and guaranteed lowest price.
www.guitarcenter.com www.guitarcenter.com

and it is 24.84 pounds. Just a smidgen more than the 090 low E in the Rotosound RS66S set.
Click to expand...
OK. So if it is a mis-print, the tension is still only about 25 lbs on the low E string, and that is still so floppy it has issues with stability and intonation.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back