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My band's sound setup - discuss and analyze

Bufalo

Funk in the Trunk
Jan 6, 2005
916
917
Harrisburg, PA
Background on my band: we are weekend warriors playing rock / country / drinking music at small to medium sized drinking establishments. Rarely is house sound part of the deal, as these places are focused on serving booze and not serving live music. Being the equipment geek of the group, sound reinforcement has always been my #2 love behind playing the bass. Recording is probably love #3, but like Alton Brown says, that's another show.

At our gig last night, outside on the patio at a local winery, one of the band WAGs snapped this photo which, while a decent pic of us playing, is a great shot of our stage setup for discussion and analysis.

ImageUploadedByTalkBass1406999261.356611.jpg


As you can see, we're your everyday two guitars, three vocals, bass, drums rock band. Both guitarists have 12" Fender combos that are mic'd at fairly low volume. The kick, snare and hat are mic'd. The bass is not currently run through the PA, but my Henry cab has enough goodness to carry the stage and room without overpowering either one. I don't get that same effect with smaller bass cabs.

I use a Mackie DL1608, my iPad is on my mic stand connected wirelessly. I have a router on a shelf in the rack you can see along with a Behringer four channel power amp and a rack power strip. The rack allows me to power the mains in stereo while still having two monitor mixes. Each channel on the amp is 2-ohm stable, giving me the intense option of running up to 16 8-ohm speakers, if the need ever arose. So my entire sound setup is contained in a 4U rack with the DL sitting on top.

Right now, speakers are the "weak" link, though have never been an issue. Everything is 12" Yamaha stuff, old mains and newer floor monitors. You can see the one in front of me and our singer; there are two more, not visible, for the other guys. By having the monitors all close to us, stage volume is not an issue and we hear everything through them.

We don't have any subs right now, and I think that's my next upgrade. Given the actual volume of the show, I'm probably going to stick with Yamaha and get a single DXS12 to add some subtle punch to the kick. I have the channels and mics available to mic the two toms on our drummer's kit, just need a few more clip-on's to mount the mics. The sub would help round those out as well. I don't need the volume capability of 18's, nor do I have the physical room to store nor transport that size sub. Eventually, powered 12" mains will be part of the mix, and I'll be able to use the 4-channel amp to give each guy his own monitor mix without having to carry any additional gear.

TL;DR version: I have a small system that makes great sound in the venues we play, and we get continuous compliments on the quality, audibility and not-too-loud-ness of our show. I completed assembling this setup in the last 4 months, and we've never played better than we do now; all as a result of the improved system.

Discuss.
 
+1 on a sub being the next step; make it a decent one, so you can cross the lows out of the tops, making them sound better too. you'll be able to blend in a little of your bass, not for volume, but for more even coverage.

aux 6 on the mackie can be used as a sub out, with that board's 24dB/octave high pass and low pass filters to cross over the tops and the sub.
 
+1 on a sub being the next step; make it a decent one, so you can cross the lows out of the tops, making them sound better too. you'll be able to blend in a little of your bass, not for volume, but for more even coverage.

aux 6 on the mackie can be used as a sub out, with that board's 24dB/octave high pass and low pass filters to cross over the tops and the sub.
+1

My old band used Mackie powered tops and I built a fEARful 15/sub that made everything sound better. Improved the tops, and added low end that wasn't overbearing. Cost me about $350 to build and weighed around 35lbs if I had to guess. I eventually build two. You could power the 15/sub with your existing amp and run your mains in mono. Just a thought. People may say I'm drinking the kool-aid, but I've found the 15/subs to be a great and in-expensive add-on if you build it yourself.
 
I play in the same type of band. I run two Harbinger HA 300 powered systems for mains a Yamaya MG 16 mixer a 1000 watt powered mixer running 4 Kustom KCP10 monitors. All we mic is the bass drum the vocal mics pick up plenty. This system is light and more then enough for what we do.
Lilke yours too!
 
Couple of things:

Sub is absolutely in the plan next, and yeah, I'm going to use an aux output and the filters to band-pass the signal going to it while offering a separate volume control. I'm currently running the mains with the HPF engaged at like 80hz with the medium slope. Everything, even the kick, is High pass filtered in the channel EQ to keep headroom available and protect the speakers. Experience with recording teaches that the illusion of low end is often more important than actual low end.

I have considered building a passive sub, and it wouldn't be a problem as I've got access to the sort of woodworking facility needed, but I'm not sure I've got the drive or time to do it! Running the mains in mono would be no issue; I'm essentially running dual mono now rather than panning anything or applying any effect in true stereo.

15" subs would be good with me, heck I'm pretty much sold on the concept of a 12" powered sub. We just need some middle bass depth, not a ton of high dB impact or sub bass extension. Anything with an F3 point in the 50-60 Hz range and an SPL capability legitimately in the high 120's will do what I need for the application. That will provide more than enough headroom and effective frequency range in the sub system. I'd add a line out from my bass to the mix at that point as well.

I'm using pretty quality mics all around the drum kit: Audix i5 for the snare, D6 for the kick & one of their condensers on the hat. I have a few more of their D10's and D12's for the toms. These venues and stage areas are small enough that a "room" mic for the kit would mostly just be a feedback creator. Crash and ride cymbals carry through the listening area well enough. I would put up a large diaphragm condenser for an overhead if we we're doing something really large, but at that point I know my limit. We'd hire a real sound guy with an appropriately sized system if we were playing anything that big.


As an aside, I'll tell you, if you're a band who doesn't need to record your shows in any detail, the DL1608 is an astonishing little package. So many dreams realized with it: flexible compression, powerful EQ, usable reverb, noise gating on each channel, filtering, an honest 16 mic input channels... I know that there are now some compelling alternatives, but I'm lacking for nothing with what it offers.


Now... Lighting?? Lighting is the responsibility of the rest of the guys. I withhold most commentary on their choices. Once it's dark, the corny clamp-on work lights themselves become basically invisible; you only notice that we're all lit up on stage. Still, yeah, would it kill them to get some real lights and gels or some modern LEDs? We're certainly not too concerned with image, but it is pretty trash-tastic the way we do it now.
 
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I'm not understanding why snare and hat are mic'd but not toms. Snare will bleed into hat mic, as well as any and all mics. When you go out front, are those toms present in your mix? I mean, if they are, no need to discuss it further. My best result is to mic the kick and toms, and to heck with the snare, unless it's a big enough room. You guys are outside in the photo, so maybe you do need to mic the snare as well, but I don't get passing up on the toms.

Otherwise, rock on!
 
Honestly, the only reason the toms weren't mic'd is because I didnt have enough drum clips. I would've preferred they were. The entire idea of mic'ing the kit can be a little superfluous at some of our gigs, but for the outdoor thing the sound was just evaporating into space.

With enough sound check time I'm sure I could use one mic to cover the drummer's left side. Lacking that, I was better suited using two and blending to taste. Still, it's a fine idea to give a try to next time around. This is the kind of stuff I was hoping to hear, thanks guys.
 
+1 on the sub.

Coupla thoughts. Rather than miking the hihat, run an overhead condensor. You'll pick up the toms through that as well. If you position the snare mic between the hihat and snare you'll pickup enough of both to work. Pet peeve, I hate clutter on stage, get the bags packed up behind stage or back somewhere out of sight and tape down cables.
 
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We got rid of all amps and run direct into the mixer. Singer and guitars use IEMs. Drummer and myself use a powered floor monitor. Our mains are 2 QSC K12s and one KW18. Our gigs are usually under 300 people and we've never had a problem with volume. Played an outdoor gig last night and it was perfect.

IMHO but not for everyone I suppose
 
+1 on the sub.

Coupla thoughts. Rather than miking the hihat, run an overhead condensor. You'll pick up the toms through that as well. If you position the snare mic between the hihat and snare you'll pickup enough of both to work. Pet peeve, I hate clutter on stage, get the bags packed up behind stage or back somewhere out of sight and tape down cables.

The trouble with the overhead is, you get a lot more cymbal than tom. Drums without bottom end lack power, and the higher frequencies, (snare, cymbals,) tend to carry quite well. Micing the toms, (even one mic between them) gives your rhythm section a lot more oomph than an overhead, in my opinion. So we mic Kick, Toms, and Hi-Hat, and let Snare and Cymbals bleed in. If the room gets bigger, we need the Snare to be mic'd. We almost never need the cymbals mic'd. I'm not even sure why they do that. :)
 
agreed, the kick needs help first, followed pretty much by the toms. for a little subless PA i couldn't imagine being loud enough to mic anything other than the kick.
 
+1 on a sub being the next step; make it a decent one, so you can cross the lows out of the tops, making them sound better too. you'll be able to blend in a little of your bass, not for volume, but for more even coverage.

aux 6 on the mackie can be used as a sub out, with that board's 24dB/octave high pass and low pass filters to cross over the tops and the sub.

I'm always telling people that the real benefit of using subs isn't so much what you put through them, but what you can take out of the tops!
 
So I'm TTT'ing my thread here with some updates. Over the fall here I've bought a Yamaha DXS12 powered sub and a pair of their new DBR12 powered mains. It's been a fantastic upgrade all around. By going to a fully powered FOH, I am able to use my 4 channel power amp to give each guy his own monitor with a separate mix. I've mostly fed the sub from an aux output mixing in the kick, bass and floor tom. I picked up some more drum clips to mix the toms in with everything else. The extra oomph of having that floor tom coming through the system sure makes the drummer happy!

Lots of compliments from long time fans about how good the new stuff sounds, and the guys in the band like being able to hear what they want. I like the compactness of everything, the relative low cost, and the ease of setup / teardown / operation. Hopefully someone gets a decent photo next time we play.

I'm set for a good long time now, so about those lights...
 
So I'm TTT'ing my thread here with some updates. Over the fall here I've bought a Yamaha DXS12 powered sub and a pair of their new DBR12 powered mains. It's been a fantastic upgrade all around. By going to a fully powered FOH, I am able to use my 4 channel power amp to give each guy his own monitor with a separate mix. I've mostly fed the sub from an aux output mixing in the kick, bass and floor tom. I picked up some more drum clips to mix the toms in with everything else. The extra oomph of having that floor tom coming through the system sure makes the drummer happy!

Lots of compliments from long time fans about how good the new stuff sounds, and the guys in the band like being able to hear what they want. I like the compactness of everything, the relative low cost, and the ease of setup / teardown / operation. Hopefully someone gets a decent photo next time we play.

I'm set for a good long time now, so about those lights...
I recently bought the same sub to use with a pair of DXR10s. I was surprised at how good it sounded for being so small and lightweight. As far as lighting my band has 8 of these. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/american-dj-mega-par-profile They work great and are nice and light.
 
I have a set of LED stage lights that my current band seldom uses as the venues we play usually has them.
Two stands with 3 * Par56 LED on each .. a PAR 56 for front of drums (or back wall fill) and two flat panels that go under each tree for more side fills. I haven't added more because they're not used much..[[shrug].
All programmed on our DMX controller (we hardly ever used the built-in sound-to-light features) and run by FOH guy (or from stage).
IIRC they were all Chauvet (and I can't find them under discontinued products). The flat panels were from Cheaplights.com.
Good stuff from them BTW.. !!