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My Epifani Quest II impressions - and a problem

vicenzajay

vicenzajay

Dec 21, 2004
1,622
41
Christiansburg, VA
#1
Well,

I got my new Epifani Quest II from Gruuv (thank you, sir), and tonight I played my first show with it. Actually, I take that back...I've played it out at church a couple weeks in a row as well. The basses used were a Dean Edge 4 Fretless and a G&L L2000. Cabinets used were the 2 EA Wizzy's powered by the QSC PLX 2402.

O.K. - I used the passive channel for the Dean (although it has an active preamp). I actually do a little slapping with the fretless, and the mid-cut switch works fairly nicely to scoop out the mids for that. I obviously used the active channel for the L2K.

Tone and flexibility were both fine...it is a fine preamp, with a nicely voiced EQ for both channels. For me it was very quiet (I use the balanced pre out to the power amp). Equalizing stage volume was fairly easy modifying input gain for each channel. It is very quick, accurate, with a very nice "flat" voicing for playing live (i.e. lets you hear your bass). Plenty of output gain was available for driving the power amp adequately, and I really like the weight and construction of the box itself.

Now for the not so good stuff - I was hoping to be able to not bring the Raven Labs MDB-1 to make the levels even on these two basses given the fact that the Quest has the two channels. Wrongo...big time. Input gain has absolutely no effect on the D.I. out - whether or not you select pre or post EQ for the D.I. As a result, I had my input gain all the way counter-clockwise (i.e. off) and still clipped the PA input channel with the D.I. output with the L2K (bass in passive mode, btw). There was actually no way to get the levels (other than stage) even for the two basses using this preamp. Pretty disappointing for me actually - the last thing I want to do is mess with volume pots during a show...and tonight it was volume pot hell with the L2K. Combine that with the fact that my monitor feed for my Shure in-ear system was boosted too high on the EQ for several sets - clipping the system and causing everything to sound like there was a major limiter in the signal chain - hard night (thankfully the FOH mix was great and everyone was dancing and having a good time) - anyway, I digress.

So I guess my "review" is a bit mixed. I'm not sure I'm going to keep this unit at the end of the day...if I still have to bring the MDB-1 to even out levels prior to the preamp, there's no point in having a two-channel preamp for me - and the Demeter I already own sounds fantastic live and recorded.

The positives are that the organic tone of the preamp is very nice...the eq is very musical, and I really like a balanced preamp out option on a modern preamp. The construction of the box is superb, and it is a very light preamp...(something I value highly). The big negative for me is that there is really no way of evening out the D.I. level for the P.A. I would think that would be integral to the design of a two-channel preamp aimed at allowing two instruments to be used in a single show. The level of the D.I. should be set at a nominal DBu that completely negates any knob twiddling on the front end. The whole point of a D.I. feed is to "feed" the P.A. - why would you ever want that level to vary - regardless of input signal strength.

Just some random thoughts,
Jay
 
#3
Sounds to me like an E-mail to Nick is in order here.
You may try searching out the "Epifani Quest Discontinued?" thread and try sending a PM to some of those that picked one up.
Here you go: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=234383&highlight=epifani+quest

It does sound strange that even running post EQ the gain levels, of each channel, are not present in the send.

I am interested in what you find out though as I am waiting upon delivery of a UL-112C, and if this is the true nature of the DI; that is going to pose some problems for me as well.
 
#5
Another problem is that the manual (or the preamp) doesn't specify which position of the button is pre or post EQ for the D.I. It has a picture of a button and beside it "post/pre", but no description either of what the button picture represents (out or in) and what position to which it corresponds.

Obviously, I tried both positions to no avail.

Jay
 
#6
Jay,

Appears you have tried everything available to you from your end. I'll stay tuned for the information you receive from the designer himself.

Just looked up the "Instruction Manual" online and it is rather vague as to the pre/post setting but from the language one could presume that the button out is pre and engaged is post EQ.
 
#7
Got to the show a bit early and re-baselined the gain structure for each bass through each channel. Pushbutton out for (hopefully) pre-EQ send on the D.I.; decreased the D.I. volume knob by a third; brought each bass to the onset of clipping on the input volume; etc. etc.

Results:

1. Stage volume was perfect for both channels - didn't have to touch the master as the passive and active channels put out the very same levels with each instrument baselined for each channel.

2. D.I. results are a bit mixed. It was, admittedly, much better than Friday night. As the night wore on, however, I could still hear that the channel was being clipped a bit through my in-ears. This was with the D.I. volume pot at 25% on the back of the Quest II (didn't matter which bass either). I asked the sound guy to trim the gain another db or two for both basses, but at least the volume part of the D.I. feed seemed to be constant for the two channels - much better results than Friday.

So.....I'm still reserved. I've got a message in to Epifani to ask some questions about the level and gain structure for the D.I. feed. I may also have to look at getting a Jensen upgrade for that transformer. I think Epifani offers that, and it can only be an improvement.

More to follow this week.....

Jay
 
#8
vicenzajay said:
Input gain has absolutely no effect on the D.I. out - whether or not you select pre or post EQ for the D.I.
Click to expand...

This is arguably a desirable feature. A consistent level from the DI Out allows a (good) soundman to retain control over the bass level within the overall mix. Depending on (i) your playing and the context, and (ii) how good the soundman is/is not, this may or may not be a good thing.

The consistent output design allows you to potentially change your stage volume without dramatically changing the volume going to the PA... of course assuming that the change in input gain isn't significant enough to yield an undesirable change in tone.

Conversely, if you ever solo, you may want to be able to boost the volume yourself by setting up the second channel as the 'solo' channel... sounds from your description like the Quest doesn''t accomodate this scenario well (though I'm surprised to hear this, BTW). Of course if the soundguy sees you soloing and boosts your level anyway, no loss.

Sounds like the biggest issue may be just that the DI Out signal is too hot overall... which you've addressed to some extent by both turning down the DI Out level and having the soundman trim the input level. I wouldn't expect a change to a Jensen transformer to perform significantly different here, at least in regards to the output level issues you're encountering, FWIW... but hopefully it's just a matter of doing some more experimenting/tweaking with the setup of your rig and PA anyway. :)
 
#9
Good to know. Thanks for the update Jay.

I've found that many of the current onboard DI's that are available seem to have very limited taper travel and are generally useless after, imagine this, 25% gain.

It may be that the potentiometer used in many designs is of questionable or lower grade quality. Possibly having something like an Alps smooth taper potentiometer as a replacement would be the ticket to happiness.

Will be interesting to hear if the Jensen transformer option would help smooth out the signal as well.
 
#10
mgmadian said:
This is arguably a desirable feature. A consistent level from the DI Out allows a (good) soundman to retain control over the bass level within the overall mix. Depending on (i) your playing and the context, and (ii) how good the soundman is/is not, this may or may not be a good thing.

The consistent output design allows you to potentially change your stage volume without dramatically changing the volume going to the PA... of course assuming that the change in input gain isn't significant enough to yield an undesirable change in tone.

Conversely, if you ever solo, you may want to be able to boost the volume yourself by setting up the second channel as the 'solo' channel... sounds from your description like the Quest doesn''t accomodate this scenario well (though I'm surprised to hear this, BTW). Of course if the soundguy sees you soloing and boosts your level anyway, no loss.

Sounds like the biggest issue may be just that the DI Out signal is too hot overall... which you've addressed to some extent by both turning down the DI Out level and having the soundman trim the input level. I wouldn't expect a change to a Jensen transformer to perform significantly different here, at least in regards to the output level issues you're encountering, FWIW... but hopefully it's just a matter of doing some more experimenting/tweaking with the setup of your rig and PA anyway. :)
Click to expand...

All good points to consider, especially if you are going to use one bass and have a solo option when changing channels.
Hot DI signal is something most manufacturers are guilty of these days.
 
#11
mgmadian said:
This is arguably a desirable feature. A consistent level from the DI Out allows a (good) soundman to retain control over the bass level within the overall mix. Depending on (i) your playing and the context, and (ii) how good the soundman is/is not, this may or may not be a good thing.

The consistent output design allows you to potentially change your stage volume without dramatically changing the volume going to the PA... of course assuming that the change in input gain isn't significant enough to yield an undesirable change in tone.

Conversely, if you ever solo, you may want to be able to boost the volume yourself by setting up the second channel as the 'solo' channel... sounds from your description like the Quest doesn''t accomodate this scenario well (though I'm surprised to hear this, BTW). Of course if the soundguy sees you soloing and boosts your level anyway, no loss.

Sounds like the biggest issue may be just that the DI Out signal is too hot overall... which you've addressed to some extent by both turning down the DI Out level and having the soundman trim the input level. I wouldn't expect a change to a Jensen transformer to perform significantly different here, at least in regards to the output level issues you're encountering, FWIW... but hopefully it's just a matter of doing some more experimenting/tweaking with the setup of your rig and PA anyway. :)
Click to expand...
However, your first sentence is exactly what I said in my first post. I expect a D.I. out to be completely even in gain...that's the angst I have right now. When the D.I. did not have an even response for the two basses, I was trying to even it out myself by trying to go post-EQ on the D.I. and then trim out my own input gain for the hotter channel. This didn't change a thing (actually a good thing), but I wanted to include it in the description of what I'd done for troubleshooting purposes.

I do agree with your premise...the only reason I'm still leaning toward the Jensen is that it has a beefier transformer and I've always been impressed with how well the Jensen on my Demeter has buffered the signal to board while still being very transparent tonally. Given the tone post-mixer, I'm not sure I'm a fan of the one in the Epifani yet.

Great info, MrBear, on the trim...imagine that on the 25 percent gain thing. I will keep everyone informed on the response I get from Nick tomorrow. Hopefully this is a D.I. trim pot/gain structure issue that is almost solved at this point.

Thanks all,
Jay
 

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