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Double Bass My Feedback Story

TNLA

TNLA

Guest
Jun 7, 2018
6
3
#1
Greetings, I am a reader of a few years but finally have a reason to post. I would like to briefly explain how I came to my current situation:

I have been playing more gigs this year on my Shen 3/4 plywood bass. Last year the bass went through a change...a catastrophic accident really. In any case I live in a big city near a pretty solid bass luthier who made everything good again (also just got new strings, Eva Pirazzi Weichs). In fact this bass sings like it never has before. I realized the bass was never set up properly before this work was completed. This is great for acoustic gigs and jams (I play mostly bluegrass and jazz, pizz and a bit of arco) but not for amplified gigs.

I first noticed definitive proof when I record the bass. After the change I noticed the mic would peak heavily at the same level where I was recording before. Also, now when I play with others the bass is like a microphone. I can feel so much vibration from everyone else in the body now. So this is the root of my problem.

For about 10 years I have had the realist copper pickup on this bass. It has worked wonderfully in many higher volume situations. But now I just stand in the wrong corner or next to the drums and my rig starts wailing. I have a notch filter on my amp which I probably need to spend more time on tweaking. Sometimes the notch filter helps but not always.

I am getting desperate enough that I am considering dropping cash on an electric upright bass. After researching them it seems only the Yamaha comes close to the experience without really sacrificing a lot of the things I love about the double bass. But from the demos I have seen online...the Yamaha looks like a fun instrument to play. No disrespect to the Yamaha, but I am not thrilled about the sound. So I am now debating investing more in this bass to fix the amplified sound, versus an electric instrument (which could obviously turn into way more cost to upgrade).

I have recently installed a bass maxx to try out on my instrument. I am a decent woodworker so I was able to get a pretty solid fit in the bridge wing. But the sound is definitely thinner than the realist, and the last gig I had a feedback issue.

Anyway now I am looking at maybe...f hole covers? Or maybe I just need to have the bass set up poorly again, lol. But the acoustic sound is better than it has ever been. Any advice is welcome. Sorry for the long first post!
 
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#2
Do you have High Pass Filter in the rig? In preamp or in the amp? If not then I recommend getting one as it can help a lot with feedback issues. I am now using HPF-Pre - it's quite an inexpensive solution which can change a lot in live gigging situations.
 
#5
It could be an amp placement issue, or the other musicians you play with. An amp can only be so loud with acoustic bass. You still have to dig in fill out the sound. If the musicians you are playing with are playing at "bass guitar" volume, then everyone needs to decide what their priorities are.
If you are doing a lot of arco and other double bass specific things an EUB is the best solution for rock volume gigs.
A bass guitar or just not playing with people that loud are other good options. If the musicians you are playing with want both you and your double bass they are just going to have to turn down.
Another issue could be the amp. A GK MB or AI head plus speaker both have a lot of head room before feeding back. I did a gig recently with two strong drummers. I used an AI head through a 4 x 12 cab and it was fine. The bass was loud, no feedback. I am not sure if this FB video will work or not:
 
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#7
Thank you everyone for the helpful comments, I will have to do some research on low pass or high pass on that thread. I agree on the balance issue between all instruments too and I am working to get the other musicians to understand that. They are not against it, just not quite seeing the big picture.

I should have mentioned I have the bass (either through realist or bass maxx) plugged into an art tube mp studio (I know it is for recording mainly but I like the sound, and really helps with the output), and this preamp is plugged into an Acoustic B100-mkii. I am open to trying a different preamp though. Sounds like I will be trying one when I figure out what kind of filter I need.

The art tube has a phase reverse switch...maybe this would help? Also the Acoustic amp has a notch filter of -10db from 50Hz to 1Khz. I think the notch filter is similar to a high pass or low pass filter but am not totally sure.

Perhaps part of my issue is that I have to set this filter directly from my amp, but of course standing right next to the amp and trying to dial in the "loud" settings results in feedback. Maybe it needs to be a two-person job, or I just need an external high/low pass filter as you all have recommended. Anyway I will do some further research on the filters and probably visit the luthier this weekend. Thanks!

EDIT
Ok after some reading I decided to try the Fdeck HP series 2m. I have ordered one so we will see how next rehearsal goes.
 
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#10
damonsmith said:
........Still, those amps designed for acoustic bass or in case of Acoustic Image, acoustic instruments seem to confront more than the highs. They give you a headroom in the sound you just don't get with bass guitar amps.
Click to expand...

Agreed, the EQ sections and preamps
of the Euphonic Audio, Acoustic Image, and Genz Benz Amps do sound much better with Double Bass. I’m not sure it’s headroom that they give you, but I’m definitely not a expert. They combine useful EQ, with the appropriate power amp, so there’s a good match. I once tried to use the front end of a Walter Woods M-100-8 into the power section of a GK200MK powered extension. It sounded terrible. :woot:
 
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#14
I’ve never tried using foam to block the F holes, as it defeates the whole purpose of playing a Double Bass IMHO. I have laced plastic tubing through the after lengths. It really does help. Just my take of course. I know others find the foam very useful. :) :thumbsup:
 
#15
Ric Vice said:
I’ve never tried using foam to block the F holes, as it defeates the whole purpose of playing a Double Bass IMHO. I have laced plastic tubing through the after lengths. It really does help. Just my take of course. I know others find the foam very useful. :) :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
Well, as long as you use a pickup and it's a moderate to high volume gig, not much sound is coming through from the F holes. I understand the estethique, but soundwise, it shouldn't matter much.
 
#16
Fredrik E. Nilsen said:
Well, as long as you use a pickup and it's a moderate to high volume gig, not much sound is coming through from the F holes. I understand the estethique, but soundwise, it shouldn't matter much.
Click to expand...

For that type of gig, I have a Clevenger EUB. You are correct, in that there is a crossover point, where the acoustical properties of the bass are overwhelmed by amplification. At that point, the difference’s between a EUB and a Double Bass are IMHO negligible. Just my take of course, lots of players do plug their F holes.

Ric
 
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#18
lurk said:
I saw Steve Rodby years ago with Pat Meth getting very loud with his upright. He had black gaffer's tape wound around his after lengths, and a phase switching system.
Click to expand...

This seems to be two of the easiest ways to control feedback. Having used both in combinination, running tubing through the after-lengths really makes a difference and a phase reverse can work well. Steve’s system was set at @2 Meg Ohms. I was working with a Euphonic Audio Doubler Mark II last week and they have a variable phase reverse which is really effective.

Ric
 
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#19
If you have to play loud, and are okay if your bass doesn't sound exactly like itself on stage, try a Krivo pickup from Gollihur. I can stand right in front of my big amp and wail. My bass is a cheap imitation, but it used to feed back like crazy with a Fishman BP100(?) no matter how I set the amp, including using an FDeck HPF(which you want regardless of this issue)


bass and ampeg.jpg
 

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