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My Nordstrand Big Splits aren't hum cancelling...

S

Schweedy

Jun 22, 2009
44
11
#1
Howdy fellow bassists!

So as the title suggests I have some Nordstrand Big-Splits that don't hum cancel. I recently bought a used Ibanez EHB1505MS, in part because it came with upgraded Nordstrand pickups over the base 1005 model's Bartolini's, but was really disappointed as soon as I heard that hum creep in when soloing either pickup. I recently changed the strings and took the opportunity to take off the pickup cover to visually confirm that it is the split version and not just a big single.(and they are indeed big splits)

I assume it's a wiring issue somehow, as the pickups work and sound great otherwise, they're just not in any way hum cancelling. As soon as the balance starts heading towards either pickup the hum creeps in and gets louder as the pickup becomes more solo-ed...

As far as I can tell this isn't a common issue, so I guess my question is: has this happened to anyone else? If so how did you fix it?
 
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#2
5 string inline hum cancellers don’t completely cancel hum. One coil covers 3 strings, the other only 2. That makes the coils imbalanced, and they hum, albeit less than a single coil. It is a common issue, but doesn’t get discussed much. It’s not fixable, it is what it is.

Some 5 string hum cancelling P pickups have a hidden 6th set of pole pieces buried in one half - those do hum cancel completely. In a J config, though, there isn’t a place to hide that 6th set of pole pieces.
 
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#3
Schweedy said:
Howdy fellow bassists!

So as the title suggests I have some Nordstrand Big-Splits that don't hum cancel. I recently bought a used Ibanez EHB1505MS, in part because it came with upgraded Nordstrand pickups over the base 1005 model's Bartolini's, but was really disappointed as soon as I heard that hum creep in when soloing either pickup. I recently changed the strings and took the opportunity to take off the pickup cover to visually confirm that it is the split version and not just a big single.(and they are indeed big splits)

I assume it's a wiring issue somehow, as the pickups work and sound great otherwise, they're just not in any way hum cancelling. As soon as the balance starts heading towards either pickup the hum creeps in and gets louder as the pickup becomes more solo-ed...

As far as I can tell this isn't a common issue, so I guess my question is: has this happened to anyone else? If so how did you fix it?
Click to expand...

Sounds as if it were mis-wired during the install. When I hear something described as "hum", I lean more towards the issue being ground related.

Riis
 
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#4
micguy said:
5 string inline hum cancellers don’t completely cancel hum. One coil covers 3 strings, the other only 2. That makes the coils imbalanced, and they hum, albeit less than a single coil. It is a common issue, but doesn’t get discussed much. It’s not fixable, it is what it is.

Some 5 string hum cancelling P pickups have a hidden 6th set of pole pieces buried in one half - those do hum cancel completely. In a J config, though, there isn’t a place to hide that 6th set of pole pieces.
Click to expand...
That was genuinely my best guess as to what the issue was, but I'd never heard it mentioned before so I figured my brain was just making poopie up and finding excuses. The hum is definitely noticeable, but I'd bet if I did a side by side with true single coils, you're probably right about it being noticeably quieter than the singles.

Thanks for the info, I'll just train my brain to ignore it, as the pickups do sound great otherwise.
 
#6
Schweedy said:
When I think of grounding hum I don't think of a hum related to the pickup balance. These pickups do just sound like the 60 cycle hum of a single coil, and it goes away when both pickups are on in full.
Click to expand...

Certainly merits investigation. My 1405 was mod'd with the Big Splits (stock proprietary preamp) and it's dead-quiet.

Riis
 
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#7
micguy said:
Some 5 string hum cancelling P pickups have a hidden 6th set of pole pieces buried in one half - those do hum cancel completely.
Click to expand...
Would you care to explain why the additional pole pieces contribute to hum canceling? I thought pole pieces' only purpose is to magnetise the strings, and that the humcanceling properties of a pickup only comes from having a pair of similar (=shape, number of turns, etc) coils with opposite winding direction. Thank you :)
 
#8
XLunacy said:
27678555[/URL], member: 253745"]Would you care to explain why the additional pole pieces contribute to hum canceling? I thought pole pieces' only purpose is to magnetise the strings, and that the humcanceling properties of a pickup only comes from having a pair of similar (=shape, number of turns, etc) coils with opposite winding direction. Thank you :)
Click to expand...

Pole pieces are magnetic “conductors” - in the presence of a magnetic field, they concentrate the flux. If you have two coils, one with pole pieces in it, and the other without, the hum signals in the presence of a magnetic field in the two coils will be different, and thus will not cancel.
 
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#9
Schweedy said:
That was genuinely my best guess as to what the issue was, but I'd never heard it mentioned before so I figured my brain was just making poopie up and finding excuses. The hum is definitely noticeable, but I'd bet if I did a side by side with true single coils, you're probably right about it being noticeably quieter than the singles.
Click to expand...

A comparable single coil has 5 pole pieces - 5 “units” of hum. An in-line canceller has coils with 3 and 2 pole pieces - the hum comes out to 3 minus 2, or 1 unit of hum. It’s one fifth as much hum, or about 14 dB less than a single coil. A well made hum canceller for a 4 or 6 string will probably cancel to well over 30dB of cancellation - 40 dB is probably typical.
 
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#10
I actually have Big Splits 5 string installed on one bass and my default setting is more of the bridge or only the bridge. No hum even with the Lusithand filter preamp which boosts the signal ( and hum if present). No hum. Something is wrong with your wiring. I do have copper foil shielding in the control cavity and pickup route.
 
#12
Schweedy said:
Howdy fellow bassists!

So as the title suggests I have some Nordstrand Big-Splits that don't hum cancel. I recently bought a used Ibanez EHB1505MS, in part because it came with upgraded Nordstrand pickups over the base 1005 model's Bartolini's, but was really disappointed as soon as I heard that hum creep in when soloing either pickup. I recently changed the strings and took the opportunity to take off the pickup cover to visually confirm that it is the split version and not just a big single.(and they are indeed big splits)

I assume it's a wiring issue somehow, as the pickups work and sound great otherwise, they're just not in any way hum cancelling. As soon as the balance starts heading towards either pickup the hum creeps in and gets louder as the pickup becomes more solo-ed...

As far as I can tell this isn't a common issue, so I guess my question is: has this happened to anyone else? If so how did you fix it?
Click to expand...
Mine never hummed. In any bass I had them in. It's either your ground, or your power source.
 
#13
Schweedy said:
When I think of grounding hum I don't think of a hum related to the pickup balance. These pickups do just sound like the 60 cycle hum of a single coil, and it goes away when both pickups are on in full.
Click to expand...
Usually, when buckers are played together, they actually increase present hum.

Is there an output drop, and significant tone drop as well when both are on full?
 
#14
I have a Big Split in the neck of my Alien Audio 5. I've never noticed any noise, whether the pickup is soloed or mixed with the Dual Coil at the bridge.

I'm certainly not discounting what micguy stated above, but it wouldn't hurt to investigate. Carey and company are top-notch folks and would surely be happy to help.
 
#16
groovaholic said:
For the pickups to hum cancel, the two halves of each pickup need to be wired out of phase.

The Nordstrand site has good info on how these pickups are supposed to be wired:
Pickup Wiring Diagrams and Schematics
Click to expand...

That is my guess as well - that the 2 halves are not out of phase or not in series - it is acting as a large single coil. Good idea to double check the wiring. Where there are 4 conductors it is easy to get it wrong.
 
#17
micguy said:
Some 5 string hum cancelling P pickups have a hidden 6th set of pole pieces buried in one half - those do hum cancel completely. In a J config, though, there isn’t a place to hide that 6th set of pole pieces.
Click to expand...

Ibanez makes a version of Big Splits called Big Break, which includes another set of pole pieces hidden in the soapbar shell.

OP, these might be worth trying to get if the other solutions don’t work and you like the sound…
 
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#18
There are several comments here about 5 string inline pickups that “don’t hum”, or are “dead quiet”. As I said before, a 5 in line canceller is 14 dB quieter than a single coil 5. That is a considerable improvement, and in a lot of cases, that will be nice and quiet. In some situations, though, you’ll still hear some hum - it’s the luck of the draw as to whether it’s an issue in a given place.

I happen to have a house where there are strong hum fields. My house is a tougher place than any of the venues I play. As a result, I work really hard at making my basses quiet there, and at a gig, it’s never been an issue.

If you have the opposite scenario - a house without significant hum fields, you can be lulled into thinking your bass is dead quiet, only to be surprised at a gig when it bums too much.
 
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#19
micguy said:
5 string inline hum cancellers don’t completely cancel hum. One coil covers 3 strings, the other only 2. That makes the coils imbalanced, and they hum, albeit less than a single coil. It is a common issue, but doesn’t get discussed much. It’s not fixable, it is what it is.

Some 5 string hum cancelling P pickups have a hidden 6th set of pole pieces buried in one half - those do hum cancel completely. In a J config, though, there isn’t a place to hide that 6th set of pole pieces.
Click to expand...
I've always wondered what the effect would be if they wound the pickups such that they were 3+2, 2+3 rather than 3+2, 3+2.
 

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