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NAD Cage Match: GK MB800F vs. Mesa Subway (audio content)

#101
mbelue said:
That is the best description of the "suck knob" I've ever heard.
Good show.
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I do what I can.
agedhorse said:
Before getting really fixated on clips, I encourage you guys to play the amp (and actually ALL amps) to get an impression of how the amps FEEL to you. Play it soft, play it hard, bang on it hard and see if there might be some differences that don't translate well into clips alone.
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This is a good point. While I'm glad to have DI-ed clips, the power section (and cabs of course) is totally out if the equation, here. While I do listen to clips (sometimes repeatedly and closely, to as many as I can, if I'm really interested in something), I try to bear in mind their limitations and that the sound and feel if each is particular to the way it was recorded, the instrument and player, and the moment of recording. Still, by listening to different clips, I think you can start to form some valid ideas - it's like seeing photos of someone taken at different times, in different light, by different people. Still not the same as meeting that person in the flesh and shaking hands, but you start to see some things. When I'm listening to a clip, I'm not necessarily thinking, "Do I want to sound like that?" but, "Is there something in that sound I can use?" Maybe that's me.

However much I've listened, read, and inferred about a bass, amp, or cab beforehand, there's always been something left to discover when I encounter the thing itself for the first time. Sometimes those are subtleties - the thing pretty closely matches my expectations - and sometimes I've missed -- or just didn't or couldn't have anticipated -- something major. (This has happened, notably, with some basses.)

Anyway, with the nearest Mesa dealer at least a day-trip away, I'm stuck with internet-dating this and other fancy amps, at least to start. I could order them all online, but I don't want to do that with an amp unless there's at least a decent chance I'll keep it - so the initial research happens on the net, along with the odds-making and gossip that keeps us masses busily engaged until someone buys an amp and shares. Or something like that.
 
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#102
For what it's worth, whether I end up with one or not, I've been impressed with Mesa's handling of just about everything connected with the Subway amp so far. Thoughtful design, good price point, good communication, timely release, open and respectful interactions with customers. Good show. ;) I don't doubt that it'll be a big success for the company and a capable gigging amp.

Still wouldn't mind trying both amps in person!
 
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#103
GK eq is a serial circuitinstead of parallel like every other amp. They say that it is has less negative effect on your tone,and that may be true but, i didnt like it. Could just be that the baked in eq curve is so strong and the mid eq is too weak. Great amps, just not for me. If the mb800 fusion started flat and had a regular eq, id own one.
 
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#104
kringle77 said:
GK eq is a serial circuitinstead of parallel like every other amp. They say that it is has less negative effect on your tone,and that may be true but, i didnt like it. Could just be that the baked in eq curve is so strong and the mid eq is too weak. Great amps, just not for me. If the mb800 fusion started flat and had a regular eq, id own one.
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Hmmm... the Eden World Tour amplifiers also use a mostly serial EQ section which seems to work fine (the bass and treble shelving controls are in parallel, whilst the three semi-parametric bands are all in series). I haven't looked too closely at others, but don't think serial EQ designs are that unusual.

My guess is that GK's built-in EQ curve is the main factor. I would probably start by setting up a flat frequency response and then adjust to taste from there rather than begin with all the knobs at noon.
 
#106
Had to be an adult and fold laundry so, I've been listening to all the clips. I've got to say, the gk tube front end does that nice compression thing like my svpcl where, the clicks and pops are rounded off where the MB reproduces them in a harder way. I think the the gk preamp with the MB eq would be sweet. It probaby is splitting hairs. They both are great. Im thinking the MB on it's own would be better for me but, the GK with some external eq help would just kick as with some grit turned up. I should have the MB later in the week so, we shall see. Thanks again Wally
 
#107
I've never heard of this as a concern.

Most eq's use serial sections, but I doesn't matter how the eq is laid out as long as it's well designed and meets the specific goals of the amp.

There are maybe a half dozen or so common eq topologies, each has it's benefits and disadvantages.
 
#108
The most that recordings of my bass playing have ever been listened to stems from this thread.

My conclusion is that neither of these amps is better. Different sounds, features and price points. The Subway is a really great amp. I don't wanna say a hero, cause what's a hero?

But sometimes there's an amp....and I'm talking about the Suway here. Sometimes there's an amp....well, it's the amp for it's time'n place. It fits right in there. And that's the Subway.
 
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#111
Listened to the second set of clips on halfway decent speakers. The GK comes off a lot better here, for my taste, than it did in the first clip. Mesa a bit thicker, rounder, more even through the mids. GK a bit more extended and a bit rougher, top and bottom. I suspect that engaging the deep switch and/or voicing control on the Mesa and a little bit of fiddling with EQ could get them closer yet, but that they'd still retain their own personalities.

Enjoy the gig - hearing and feeling how each does through a cab in a live mix should be revealing.
 
#113
Fwiw the second clips are much closer however the inherent amp vibe seems to still be there. The GK arguably sounds "prettier" with a bit less mid thickness and more sheen. However on a gig in a mix, I'd probably rather have the Mesa tone.

That said, aged horsey' comment about feel is critical. I've dumped perfectly good sounding heads because the notes didn't feel right when I played them. Everyone's technique is different, and amps react differently.
 
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#114
nostatic said:
That said, aged horsey' comment about feel is critical. I've dumped perfectly good sounding heads because the notes didn't feel right when I played them. Everyone's technique is different, and amps react differently.
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Could not agree more!!! This is a critically important factor for me, and the biggest difference (again, for me) between the big transformer amps of yesteryear, and the new lightweights. The gap has closed significantly, but this is one of the reasons that the Genz Benz GBE400 is still my favourite amp of all time.
 
#115
CaptainWally said:
Okie dok. GK set as requested. Mesa EQ @ noon, with voicing not turned quite all the way to the left. This was my best attempt to match the GK.

GK:
High: 11ish
Hi Mid: 1ish
Low Mid: 1ish
Bass: Just shy of noon
Contour off





I don't know if I've been comparing these too long or what, but they are starting to sound the same to me :p
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Thank you very much for the extra clips!
The D sounds more musical to me (more honest, less processed).
Love the low mids on the D & their balance with the midrange.
The tone sounds a bit thicker on the D & the treble more natural.
The upper mids on the MBF would probably cut through a busy mix better, but there are probably synergistic match-ups for either amps that would make either one sound damn good (bass guitars, cabs, strings, etc).
Not sure how the different power modules would affect the tone, but the Mesa clips sound awesome to me through the DI.
Thank you CW!
 
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