NAD First Mesa I've Owned BB750

[Thumpin6string]

That's an interesting way to phrase your observation - and pretty well-aligned with differences that I've noted.

But as @agedhorse has explained MANY times, there shouldn't be any inherent audible difference between Class AB and Class D.
Amps designed to sound the same should sound the same; power supply is just one of many factors in the design of an amp.

Yet I keep hearing people (I've been one of them) use that word "slam" to differentiate the experience of playing through Class AB gear and playing through Class D.
So I wonder if our standard/accepted vocabulary is lagging behind the technology.

The analogy I'd use is incandescent vs LED lighting:
Before LED, we generally only talked about wattage of bulbs.
Now, people have become more aware of color temperature and lumens.

When I edit pictures on my iPhone, I see even MORE descriptive terms - black point, shadows, midtones, brilliance, saturation, contrast...

If we can figure out a similarly detailed way to quantify the auditory differences that we like in the amps we love, I'm sure that the amp designers can deliver that sound - regardless of power supply type.

Back to my earlier analogy - even if we match the color temperature and lumens, the light generated by each type of bulb will still be perceived differently.
I'm not saying better or worse, I'm saying different.

So we need to keep discussing, and hopefully find quantifiable ways to explain our qualitative reactions.

Class D amps are very loud, but they seem polite to my ears, where the older amps felt like they were punching you in the chest.

 

[Thumpin6string]

I do often read that on here to that D doesn’t have the slam of AB. Trips me out. The Mesa 800+ with the Bass boost on, HPF all the way “off” through a triad of Subway 410,115, and 112 cabs is unequivocally THE definition of “slam”.

Like I said, I haven't had a chance to try the Mesa class D heads.

 

[Thumpin6string]

Probably unlikely to find the original footswitch.

There may be other Mesa footswitches that are compatible, however the function labels may not be accurate.

The guy I bought it from says he might still have the switch, and he'll let me know by the weekend. Andy (agedhorse) said he has a switch that will work if I can't get the original.

 

[Element Zero]

Like I said, I haven't had a chance to try the Mesa class D heads.

Gotcha. To be honest, besides the Aguilar TH500 and some early MarkBass heads and 2 Mesa’s, I haven’t tried others either.

 

[Ethix4]

I love this whole line of heads from mesa. The bb750, the titan, v12, i personally have an mpulse 600 and walkabout. I've been waiting for a bb750 like this to pop up for the right price. I feel the current going rate Is to much , how much was cheap?
I definetly agree on the class d thing, only a few come close to ab. Yes you can't hear it for the most part. But run a downtuned 5 string or more through an inefficient cabinet with the same wattage class d and ab amp and you'll see the fartout I get that's why I run only a/B and tube now usually

 

[Thumpin6string]

I love this whole line of heads from mesa. The bb750, the titan, v12, i personally have an mpulse 600 and walkabout. I've been waiting for a bb750 like this to pop up for the right price. I feel the current going rate Is to much , how much was cheap?
I definetly agree on the class d thing, only a few come close to ab. Yes you can't hear it for the most part. But run a downtuned 5 string or more through an inefficient cabinet with the same wattage class d and ab amp and you'll see the fartout I get that's why I run only a/B and tube now usually

The seller said the volume would drop after a few minutes of playing, so I got it for $200 shipped to my door with the pictured case. Plugged it in and sure enough, it cut out. Put a patch cable between the effects send and return and it hasn't happened since. So just dirty jacks.

 

[agedhorse]

You got very lucky. Many of these older MOSFET amps (not just Mesa but all amps that used either the Lateral or Vertical parts) are getting hard, expensive or impossible) to repair depending on the specific parts. These process types have been discontinued and most parts in the market are fakes that do not work properly.

 

[Thumpin6string]

You got very lucky. Many of these older MOSFET amps (not just Mesa but all amps that used either the Lateral or Vertical parts) are getting hard, expensive or impossible) to repair depending on the specific parts. These process types have been discontinued and most parts in the market are fakes that do not work properly.

Yes, I got lucky. However, I did my due diligence before I bought it. I contacted TB's amp tech Hand slap who repaired my old A.M.P. Series 220 head. We went over the symptoms and possible causes. He also had purchased a few years ago Mesa's left over parts for amps they were no longer servicing. So, he was pretty confident he had anything we may need. I know all about the fake parts out there. I was able to source some used power transistors for the A.M.P. which helped save the amp.

 

[groovaholic]

The Mesa 800+ with the Bass boost on, HPF all the way “off” through a triad of Subway 410,115, and 112 cabs is unequivocally THE definition of “slam”.

The D800+ was the most intuitive amp I've ever owned - each control did exactly what I expected it to.
GREAT amp!

But I'm going to go out on a limb here: My guess is that almost any amp connected to that assortment of cabs will sound huge.
Even amps not rated for 2 ohms would sound great...for a little while.

 

[Thumpin6string]

For those that own the BB750, what is with the Speakons? I have 2 Neutric Speakon cables that have worked for every head and every cab I've ever owned, but for some reason they won't plug into the Speakons on the Mesa. One of the cables has a replacement Neutric Speakon on one end and that is the only one that fits. Am I missing something?

 

[agedhorse]

They are standard NL-4 jacks that accept NL-2 and NL-4 plugs (unless someone modified it).

 

[Thumpin6string]

They are standard NL-4 jacks that accept NL-2 and NL-4 plugs (unless someone modified it).

The one that fits is a NL-2FX. It has a crescent moon shaped center post. The other ones that don't fit have a round center post. I believe this amp is a very early production model, so maybe pre NL-4 jacks and that is why. The things that make me think it's early production is instead of a single power amp board, it has 2 boards with a jumper connecting them, it has no effects bypass switch and it doesn't have a switch on the overdrive master pot. The manual says you can pull out the overdrive master to turn on the overdrive channel, but not on this one. Nothing inside appears to have been touched. Jacks say 2 connectors keyed and serial is BL-000047, so looks pretty early.

 

[agedhorse]

The one that fits is a NL-2FX. It has a crescent moon shaped center post. The other ones that don't fit have a round center post. I believe this amp is a very early production model, so maybe pre NL-4 jacks and that is why. The things that make me think it's early production is instead of a single power amp board, it has 2 boards with a jumper connecting them, it has no effects bypass switch and it doesn't have a switch on the overdrive master pot. The manual says you can pull out the overdrive master to turn on the overdrive channel, but not on this one. Nothing inside appears to have been touched. Jacks say 2 connectors keyed and serial is BL-000047, so looks pretty early.

AFAIK, there was never an NL-2 jack version, everything I have seen in all the documents is NL-4.

This explains why the NL-4 doesn't fit. I would think this amp got modified at some point in its life, though anything is possible. I wasn't at Mesa when your amp was built.

 

[Thumpin6string]

AFAIK, there was never an NL-2 jack version, everything I have seen in all the documents is NL-4.

This explains why the NL-4 doesn't fit. I would think this amp got modified at some point in its life, though anything is possible. I wasn't at Mesa when your amp was built.

When did the NL-4 jacks start being used in amps? Looks like this was built in 2004.

 

[agedhorse]

When did the NL-4 jacks start being used in amps? Looks like this was built in 2004.

Early 1990's. I started using them in ~1997 with the GBE-250/500 series

 

[Thumpin6string]

Early 1990's. I started using them in ~1997 with the GBE-250/500 series

I also found some pics online of an early one like mine that also has the NL-2 2 conductor Speakons. So, they must have used them on the early ones.

 

[agedhorse]

Then it would have been a mistake or mixup then, all the information I have shows NL-4z

 

[Al Kraft]

This is why many designers of newer amps are careful not to voice an amp so strongly that they become a “one trick pony”where their strengths are also their weakness.

Unless you are only playing one style of music all the time, overly-voiced heads become more of a problem than a blessing IME. The bands I play with do a wide range of covers across many genres of music. I need a head that starts in a more neutral place (with a a little personality or flavor) and can allow me to revoice it easily with controls that are straightforward and effective. For many players a more neutral starting point and an ability to play nicely with effects complemented by well thought out, subtle controls to fine tune their sound is perfect.

 

[Thumpin6string]

Unless you are only playing one style of music all the time, overly-voiced heads become more of a problem than a blessing IME. The bands I play with do a wide range of covers across many genres of music. I need a head that starts in a more neutral place (with a a little personality or flavor) and can allow me to revoice it easily with controls that are straightforward and effective. For many players a more neutral starting point and an ability to play nicely with effects complemented by well thought out, subtle controls to fine tune their sound is perfect.

I agree with you to a point. I like my amp to sound a certain way set flat. My absolute favorite head was the Eden WT550. The "baked in voicing" of that amp was perfect to my ears. I have found a few others that were close like my A.M.P. BH420, the Genz Benz Neopack, some Markbass heads and this head. It sounds close to the Eden but with more balls. I tend to set my amp how I like it and only adjust the master. Any "revoicing" I'll do on my bass.

 

[Al Kraft]

I agree with you to a point. I like my amp to sound a certain way set flat. My absolute favorite head was the Eden WT550. The "baked in voicing" of that amp was perfect to my ears. I have found a few others that were close like my A.M.P. BH420, the Genz Benz Neopack, some Markbass heads and this head. It sounds close to the Eden but with more balls. I tend to set my amp how I like it and only adjust the master. Any "revoicing" I'll do on my bass.

I also like my amp to have a little character and not just sound like "a wire with gain". It's why I own a number of heads so I can pick that "right flavor of neutral starting point" for what I'm going to be doing.

While I own an Aguilar TH500 as well as Mesa Carbines (to offer two extreme examples from my amp collection) and enjoy them, there is not always enough versatility to fit nicely into all the bands I play with. I can almost always make them work, but some of my other heads give me a little better neutral voicing and don't require as much knob tuning to get into the zone I need.