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need a mic for an amp with no direct out

#46
BigMac5 said:
How? I have seen it done with excellent results. Ampeg SVT-2Pro/810E micid with a sennheiser 421. It's not a big deal unless you make it a big deal.
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Yeah, that's the kind of rig I would never play through (no offense), and if I did I'm sure it would work better than many when mic'ed. Again, take a rig with a tweeter, ports, etc, and try putting a mic on it to get the sound you hear to come through the PA. It just doesn't tend to work out very well, especially when you're rushed to get bass tone through the PA with some soundguy you hardly know. Remember, that was the qualifying statement I made to suggest that mic'ing just isn't worth the hassle.
 
#47
Eublet said:
Yeah, that's the kind of rig I would never play through (no offense), and if I did I'm sure it would work better than many when mic'ed. Again, take a rig with a tweeter, ports, etc, and try putting a mic on it to get the sound you hear to come through the PA. It just doesn't tend to work out very well, especially when you're rushed to get bass tone through the PA with some soundguy you hardly know. Remember, that was the qualifying statement I made to suggest that mic'ing just isn't worth the hassle.
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I wouldn't play a cab with a tweeter (no offense).
 
#48
BigMac5 said:
I wouldn't play a cab with a tweeter (no offense).
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Definitely none taken. The kind of rig you are talking about, one that is highly colored and rather narrow sonically in terms of highs and lows, is the kind of rig that needs to get mic'ed to get the sound through a bit more. The amp and cabinet are part of the sound, and it covers up a good bit of the natural voice of the bass. That's a totally cool thing, and I dig it for many kinds of music (usually rock stuff).

I'm just wanting to offer that mic'ing is no more the end-all be-all than a DI is. Each has uses, and pros/cons. Totally depends on what one is going for. There's just much more to mic'ing a cab than many folks who've never done it would think. Placement is so critical in getting it all to sound right, and you still have to trust the FOH engineer to not futz it up at the board. Using a mic doesn't take away his power.
 
#49
BigMac5 said:
Yes you do.
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About the sound, yes. About how it is produced, no.

If a mic on the bass rig best serves the band, that's fine - I've just never heard it happen.

If the bass rig alone does it, that's great - I've just never heard it happen. I'll glady spread the word about any player who manages it.

If the guitar rig does it un-mic'd, that's great - I've just never heard a guitar rig that could evenly cover a venue.
 
#50
Eublet said:
Definitely none taken. The kind of rig you are talking about, one that is highly colored and rather narrow sonically in terms of highs and lows, is the kind of rig that needs to get mic'ed to get the sound through a bit more. The amp and cabinet are part of the sound, and it covers up a good bit of the natural voice of the bass. That's a totally cool thing, and I dig it for many kinds of music (usually rock stuff).

I'm just wanting to offer that mic'ing is no more the end-all be-all than a DI is. Each has uses, and pros/cons. Totally depends on what one is going for. There's just much more to mic'ing a cab than many folks who've never done it would think. Placement is so critical in getting it all to sound right, and you still have to trust the FOH engineer to not futz it up at the board. Using a mic doesn't take away his power.
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All I'm saying is that micing a bass rig is no big deal. Some guys like the DI sound and some like a tube amp miced. Either one is good, and neither should be a big deal.
 
#51
TimmyP said:
About the sound, yes. About how it is produced, no.

If a mic on the bass rig best serves the band, that's fine - I've just never heard it happen.

If the bass rig alone does it, that's great - I've just never heard it happen. I'll glady spread the word about any player who manages it.

If the guitar rig does it un-mic'd, that's great - I've just never heard a guitar rig that could evenly cover a venue.
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:rolleyes::scowl::rollno:
 
#53
thedrones said:
so i am pretty much set on the countryman type 85. I have a tube combo amp and i am not going to mad it or anything, so the tone coming out of the PA will just be the countryman. So, what does that sound like? Is it just a really clean bass tone?
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yeah. if your used to a tube amp that you turn up and get some grit out of, you might not like a straight DI in to the PA. but you also might love it.

its clean. its essentially your basses output going straight to the PA. your amp is just on stage for you to hear yourself.
 
#54
yeah. if your used to a tube amp that you turn up and get some grit out of, you might not like a straight DI in to the PA. but you also might love it.

its clean. its essentially your basses output going straight to the PA. your amp is just on stage for you to hear yourself.
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Yea, i think ill be fine without the tube grit live, because, well, i dont think anyone in the audience really pays that much attention to it, so a good, strong, clean signal is just what i need. Ill save all my amp's awesome tubeiness for recording...haha
 
#56
Eublet said:
Folks who think that mic'ing a cab will put your sound into the PA are only fooling themselves. It does help capture tonal effects, but if you're cab has a tweeter, then how do you mic it too? At what angle does the mic sit in relation to the cone? Does it sit over the cone, or over the dust cap? What happens if you need to turn up or down during the gig?
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we would deal with it the same way a guitarists deals with it. These same questions apply to electric guitar, and yet micing the amp is the most accepted standard, at least in rock clubs. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your points, but I don't think those are valid reasons not to try micing the cab if that's the sound you prefer.
 
#58
I actuallly find the Shure SM58 pretty good for mic'ing basses - it's normally a vocal mic - but it has all the frequencies needed for bass. I've recorded with it many times, all with a more than decent sound quality. I prefer this sound over my DI, since I get the EQ and sound from my cab thrown in the PA system/mixingboard.
also the sm58 is a sturdy one - it's not gonna break on the hard tour, plus there's no off switch so you will never forget to turn it on. - it sure sounds WAY better than "to-believed-to-be-instrument-mic" sm57.

give it a shot - they should be quite cheap. don't know the prices where you live though

btw - I have a barefaced bass "big one" cab - I just mic the center of the 15" speaker and forget about the tweeter, the sm58 will catch those high frequencies anyways.
 
#59
crusie is right, the 58 works well in many non-vocal applications. three "kick" mics into a session i threw it into the mix without telling anyone - just 'adjusting the placement' . all agreed it was the best tone and the recording could continue.
 
#60
Eublet said:
Folks who think that mic'ing a cab will put your sound into the PA are only fooling themselves.

<snip>

And if your bass doesn't sound good all by itself through a good DI, then really, why do you want to play it anyway? :D
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oh come on! jason, i really like you and think you're a nice guy, but why do you assume that everyone has the same tonal goals as you? i expect this kind of nonsense out of timmy, but you? et tu, eublet!

all i know is that any soundman who tells me i'm fooling myself by wanting a mic instead of a di better really like hearing the words "you're fired" because that will be the next sound he/she hears. i have done extensive listening tests with both di's and mics and unless i get a really bad rental cab, i want a mic 100% of the time. this is not based on "fooling myself," but rather recordings and listening in many different pa's to both. i think my sound is a LOT closer to my amp sound with a mic than everyone of you think it is, and even if it isn't, so what? it's what i like and it's what i want.

now what i really can't understand is why i have to get into shouting matches with soundmen to get it, or argue even a little bit with other bassists. i know what i want, and my sound out of my amp is such that any soundman would thank his lucky stars to have my amp sound to work with. it's just unbelievable to me that so many of you feel compelled to tell me i'm wrong. no, i'm right and you're all wrong. realize that not everyone likes what you like, and not everything is wrong simply because you don't like it.

boy, you folks should really be glad that this thread took place while i was on a cruise ship for a week. it would have turned hostile way sooner ;)
 

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