Need some advice on current band state

[Wolfenstein666]

you can program complex time signatures and time signature changes into most DAWs and the click track and grid will adjust. but having the click track on an audio track should serve as a good enough visual guide to have things "snap" to.

"perfection is the enemy of the good"--good quote for sure and i see how it's relevant here. i've heard it most often in the context of government. but it definitely fits, and i think a "perfect" track--even technical metal--is often a boring track. not that mistakes make it better, but some amount of human variation in the timing makes the music groove. a band like Fear Factory is maybe the antithesis of that, but then again how long can you listen to Fear Factory before you get bored? Meshugga is a good example of a band that plays some crazily technical odd time stuff but always has a "groove". my advice would be only fix things that sound "wrong". i don't hear many/any of those in the soundcloud link you posted.

in any case good luck moving things along!

Thanks man. I genuinely hope this is just a funk we're in and not indicative of a larger fatal problem. It'd be really hard to walk away from the band. The guys are great and I love the music we write.

 

[Basshappi]

........He is a perfectionist, which to a degree I can totally understand. We want it to be good. But someone once said "perfection is the enemy of good". I get where he's coming from, but at this point I don't think the issue is perfectionism, I think the issue is simply not putting the time in.

In my experience this is a red flag. If the person in question is a pro with a resume of successful projects to his credit then he can afford to be "a perfectionist" anyone else is a roadblock.

Is there a set release date for the album? Are gigs booked before and after that date?
If the answer is NO then your band has a real problem.
Stop worrying about writing more material, you haven't even released the stuff you've already spent your time and money on.
The band needs to be out in the scene playing and creating excitement for the upcoming album. You don't wait until race day before buying the hotrod.

In my opinion if the other members of your band can't/won't address these issues with immediate and deliberate action then it is probably time to start looking for a band that is motivated toward the same goals as you.

Sucks, I know, but that's the music business for you.

Good Luck

 

[Wolfenstein666]

In my experience this is a red flag. If the person in question is a pro with a resume of successful projects to his credit then he can afford to be "a perfectionist" anyone else is a roadblock.

Is there a set release date for the album? Are gigs booked before and after that date?
If the answer is NO then your band has a real problem.
Stop worrying about writing more material, you haven't even released the stuff you've already spent your time and money on.
The band needs to be out in the scene playing and creating excitement for the upcoming album. You don't wait until race day before buying the hotrod.

In my opinion if the other members of your band can't/won't address these issues with immediate and deliberate action then it is probably time to start looking for a band that is motivated toward the same goals as you.

Sucks, I know, but that's the music business for you.

Good Luck

Gigs are not booked. Again, this is the lack of motivation coming through.

I am literally the guy they tell to 'chill out' and 'this stuff takes time'. I get that, to an extent. I know I have a ton of energy and not everyone can or will commit the time I will, but this doesn't seem like an issue of can, but an issue of will.

I unfortunately agree with your assessment. I'll let this ride for a bit longer and probably set forth an ultimatum. Either we commit, or I can't go on with them. Which literally makes me sad thinking about it, but you're right. Welcome to the business.

 

[Biggbass]

Finishing an album is very hard to do unless you have a full time schedule to commit to it.
Working full time at any day job and trying to produce an album during free time can be done, but it takes a long time to get it done. IF your drummer is in that situation consider paying someone who works at a studio to do the final production on it.

Other band issues...practice, motivation, all depend on the passion and drive among the band members...maybe you guys need a break to regain that.

 

[madbass6]

I've been in my band for a little over 3 years now. When I first joined we were lacking direction. Nothing was getting done, practices were sporadic. I was super naggy and finally got the guys to focus and we started working and getting stuff done.

We just recorded an album. We're editing it right now, and my drummer took on that responsibility. And this is where everything ground to a halt. It's taking way too long, much longer than it should. We started writing new music, but practices aren't happening. No one seems motivated to do much of anything.

It's gotten to the point where I'm really starting to wonder if this is worth my time to try and get this back on track. I don't blame anyone in the band for things in their personal life or wanting to do other things, but no one will say that they don't want to be in the band. It's like the band is becoming more of an annoyance than something to look forward to.

I don't know what to do. I don't know if I should stick this out and see if it gets better, or pack my bags, take a break from bands and focus on my playing. The former would result in more stress worrying about what direction the band will go and if we're going to start really working again, the latter would result in heartbreak because I really do love the band and the guys I play with. We work very well together. And I will absolutely miss gigging.

Just looking for advice from you guys and gals. This is really a tough one for me.

Sounds a bit contradicting !
it doesn't sound like you guys work well together at all! if you're not happy just Quit!

 

[Wolfenstein666]

Sounds a bit contradicting !
it doesn't sound like you guys work well together at all! if you're not happy just Quit!

It's not that. When the work is getting done, we write amazing stuff and work well as a unit. The problem is that it's not getting done.

 

[Wolfenstein666]

Finishing an album is very hard to do unless you have a full time schedule to commit to it.
Working full time at any day job and trying to produce an album during free time can be done, but it takes a long time to get it done. IF your drummer is in that situation consider paying someone who works at a studio to do the final production on it.

Other band issues...practice, motivation, all depend on the passion and drive among the band members...maybe you guys need a break to regain that.

This sort of plays into what two fingers said. Maybe say no more practice until the albums is done. Come back stronger with an album and motivated again.

 

[Bassquest]

Congrats on the album (unfinished). Maybe suggest setting a date for a CD release party. That may keep things moving along and focused.

 

[Mantis Tobaggan]

Maybe just take a break? Most major bands do this.

 

[kevteop]

Editing recordings can take an age, if you don't have really good takes. Drummers can be especially anal about it, cutting together their best takes, shifting beats into time, placing samples to beef stuff up etc. It can get silly really easily.

Get everybody on it, make it happen, finish the album. Once that's done you can all move on but at the moment you're probably all feeling a bit jaded because that's in the way of you making new music.

 

[pcake]

three years is a long time not to be out gigging. how many songs do you have ready to play at this point?

Gigs are not booked. Again, this is the lack of motivation coming through.

I am literally the guy they tell to 'chill out' and 'this stuff takes time'. I get that, to an extent. I know I have a ton of energy and not everyone can or will commit the time I will, but this doesn't seem like an issue of can, but an issue of will.

I unfortunately agree with your assessment. I'll let this ride for a bit longer and probably set forth an ultimatum. Either we commit, or I can't go on with them. Which literally makes me sad thinking about it, but you're right. Welcome to the business.

seems to me that if you feel they're dragging their metaphorical feet (which they are) and they want you to chill, you have fundamental differences in approach and in what you want from the band that are going to leave you almost always frustrated and unsatisfied. if they rise to your ultimatum, it will be temporary - after all, you had to nag them to get this much done.

personally i might keep playing with them if i enjoyed it, but if it were me i'd definitely want to form or join a band where the members are motivated to move forward, practice and get things done. the unmotivated band could be my "b" band.

 

[Wolfenstein666]

Congrats on the album (unfinished). Maybe suggest setting a date for a CD release party. That may keep things moving along and focused.

I've been pushing this, but with our drummer doing the editing I don't know for sure when would be a good time. Once it's back in our engineers hands, I'll push this point much more. Then we'll have a more concrete timeframe.

Maybe just take a break? Most major bands do this.

Also have been thinking about this, but I'm scared a 2 week break would turn into a 4 week break into 2 months and on and on and on...

Editing recordings can take an age, if you don't have really good takes. Drummers can be especially anal about it, cutting together their best takes, shifting beats into time, placing samples to beef stuff up etc. It can get silly really easily.

Get everybody on it, make it happen, finish the album. Once that's done you can all move on but at the moment you're probably all feeling a bit jaded because that's in the way of you making new music.

That's definitely want my guitarist wants to do and I'm with it as far as new music is concerned. But you're right in that we should focus on that one goal and achieve that first.

 

[Wolfenstein666]

three years is a long time not to be out gigging. how many songs do you have ready to play at this point?



seems to me that if you feel they're dragging their metaphorical feet (which they are) and they want you to chill, you have fundamental differences in approach and in what you want from the band that are going to leave you almost always frustrated and unsatisfied. if they rise to your ultimatum, it will be temporary - after all, you had to nag them to get this much done.

personally i might keep playing with them if i enjoyed it, but if it were me i'd definitely want to form or join a band where the members are motivated to move forward, practice and get things done. the unmotivated band could be my "b" band.

We done many gigs in the three years I've been with them. But the last gig we did was august of last year. My personal view is that we could be gigging now, but unfortunately nobody shares my enthusiasm.

 

[kevteop]

That's definitely want my guitarist wants to do and I'm with it as far as new music is concerned. But you're right in that we should focus on that one goal and achieve that first.

Ask your drummer if he's even happy with his own takes. He might be struggling to piece together anything that he actually likes. Drummers have a tough time in the studio especially if budgets are tight and things get rushed - he will suffer the most from having to track to scratch tracks especially if he has to play to a click which he probably only does once in a blue moon, it's not always easy. He might not like the sound of what he's got, or he might have found timing problems in certain places.

Consider taking him back in to re-record his parts with the rest of the tracks as reference. You'll probably get a much better performance out of him because he must know everybody else's tracks pretty intimately by now. No record ever sounds better than its drum tracks so it's worth doing not just for his ego but for the product as a whole, if he's not happy.

 

[pcake]

...we could be gigging now, but unfortunately nobody shares my enthusiasm.

i see you have talked to them some, but do you know whether there are actually reasons that could be addressed about that lack of enthusiasm? were they more enthusiastic when you were gigging? if so, maybe you could book a gig or two to get that momentum going again.

 

[Wolfenstein666]

Ask your drummer if he's even happy with his own takes. He might be struggling to piece together anything that he actually likes. Drummers have a tough time in the studio especially if budgets are tight and things get rushed - he will suffer the most from having to track to scratch tracks especially if he has to play to a click which he probably only does once in a blue moon, it's not always easy. He might not like the sound of what he's got, or he might have found timing problems in certain places.

Consider taking him back in to re-record his parts with the rest of the tracks as reference. You'll probably get a much better performance out of him because he must know everybody else's tracks pretty intimately by now. No record ever sounds better than its drum tracks so it's worth doing not just for his ego but for the product as a whole, if he's not happy.

We were pretty much at the top end of our budget by the end of tracking. We all agreed that it was what we could afford as a band, and it was honestly a happy medium because no one was really upset with their parts. When he let us edit ourselves that pretty much alleviated all of those concerns.

So as far as parts go, I think everyone is happy with it. It's now down to the amount of time it's taking. I'm a reasonable guy, but this has honestly taken too long.

 

[CaseyJ]

@Wolfenstein666 - hey man, are you guys from the Ft Wayne area?

 

[EdO.]

Also have been thinking about this, but I'm scared a 2 week break would turn into a 4 week break into 2 months and on and on and on...

We done many gigs in the three years I've been with them. But the last gig we did was august of last year. My personal view is that we could be gigging now, but unfortunately nobody shares my enthusiasm.

Dude. By your own admission, whether you realize it or want to recognize it or not, you don't have a band per se. You have a project. They're obviously not on the same page with you in regards to future movement. As much as you obviously don't want to let it go you're treading water at best, and one can only tread water so long before you run out of energy and drown. Look for other like minded musicians and move forward. One step back, two steps forward.

 

[Wolfenstein666]

i see you have talked to them some, but do you know whether there are actually reasons that could be addressed about that lack of enthusiasm? were they more enthusiastic when you were gigging? if so, maybe you could book a gig or two to get that momentum going again.

I have an answer to this but it's a little wordy and I'm on an iPhone. I'll tag you tomorrow and explain it.

 

[Wolfenstein666]

@Wolfenstein666 - hey man, are you guys from the Ft Wayne area?

PM me.

Dude. By your own admission, whether you realize it or want to recognize it or not, you don't have a band per se. You have a project. They're obviously not on the same page with you in regards to future movement. As much as you obviously don't want to let it go you're treading water at best, and one can only tread water so long before you run out of energy and drown. Look for other like minded musicians and move forward. One step back, two steps forward.

I would agree but this isn't the first time it's happened. I just fear the rut is deeper now than it was before.

And I agree with you. It's incredibly exhausting. i'm on the fence as to whether it's a passing phase or a permanent rut. Which makes me hesitant to call it quits because what if the top of the hill is in sight? I think two fingers nailed it. Remove the bottleneck, and if it doesn't progress than it's a symptom of a deeper problem.