New build - stuck on pickups choice

[Whaleform]

Hey friends,

I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on this mild dilemma.. But first a brief history on my style to hopefully help. I play 6 string fretless bass in an experimental dissonant metal context. I have 25 years of experience on guitar in jazz, funk, metal and switched over to bass last year and have fallen in love. I use the PAMI classical finger technique and find it suits me very well. I pretty much only used passive pickups my whole life except that one bit i tried EMG actives on guitar and really disliked them. My current Ibanez srms805 has active and passive option but i find i never go active.. its simply "Way too much" .

Fast forward now.. Im a bassist pretty much.. So far ive played on :

-Ibanzes Srms805 - fanned fret - with Bartolini BH2 passive on neck and bridge and they work very well for me.

-my current bass is a Gorgeous Clement #102 and features a single Bartolini P4 dual coil soapbar (model P46K-B - bright dual coil design, bridge position). As simple as this is, its working perfectly fine for my 6 string fretless..


Im currently working on another 6 string fretless Clement build and the pickups im considering are nordstrand over the Bartolinis that i usually default too. I've read around the forums they are more aggressive with more bite, which would suit the metal application better. But even with the "polite" Bartolinis its still fine for metal tone. For this build I may go with the nordstrand 3 band active preamp EQ depending on the answer to the question below..

My questions:

-im considering the Nordstrand Big Single 6 (Bridge ) and Big Rig 6 (Neck) - im not pickup expert and the descriptions are hard to navigate but this is what im leaning torwards.. Primarily again using this in an experimental dissonant metal, prog rock context but also be playing some jazz.

-another quick question, and im just more of a player not a luthier haha.. So i use a very basic setup, empress compressor pedal and the Microtubes b7k analog bass pre amp.. if i go a pure passive setup and ommit active components, cant i just dial the tone similar to a passive onboard EQ on this pedal then ? I just feel it should be pretty much the same keeping the electronics on the bass simpler which im a fan of.. i mean im doing ok with the current clement with jus a single bridge passive pickup after all.. and a single tone knob.. Isnt tweaking the b7k pedal similar to tweaking an active bass just not on the bass?

-does it even really make sense to go active components at all with a fretless? With such an organic woody sound, wouldnt active sort of clash with it? as much as i like to experiment i feel im going overkill considering my "passive" history still getting my results. I do like the idea of having more options to experiment with on recordings , not so much live..


Thank you for entertaining my ramblings

 

[LoveThatBass]

I had not tried Nordstrand pickups until 3 months ago I ordered a 50’s style Fender Telebass single coil with Alnico 3 magnets direct from Nordstrand and absolutely love it for Jazz, country, classic rock using GHS Pressure wound Rounds. I normally like TI Jazz Flats but this bass sounds and plays awesomely with the rounds I decided this is my bass for Rounds only. I do not play Metal so do not know what your needs are but Nordstrands are my now goto pickup of choice and while other basses are active but this Sire D4 bass is strictly passive and no need for active preamp to cut through the mix. Hope this helps

 

[LoveThatBass]

Please delete thread, ive found a solid answer

what is that answer. Also please read my above and tell me what you decided on. Thanks

 

[Whaleform]

Thank you kindly for your response. I've decided to keep it simple and go pure passive BigRig6 neck and bridge position with volume blend and tone knobs. Plugging into the b7k essentially makes it active so i can tweak stuff. Im already doing fine with just a bridge pickup as is (passive). Ill stick with what i know works i guess and minimize unnecessary electronics and the use of batteries etc.

Stacking an on board pre amp with a pre amp pedal like the B7k just made no sense to me.. while it may to some ... The organic feel and tone of a fretless just demands more simplicity in my eyes

cheers!

 

[LoveThatBass]

Passive is to me typically a better sound. In a Jazz bass I prefer true single coil tone but not the buzz noise when pickups are not set near identically in volume. I put Aguilar Noiseless on it but the “Sterile” sound bugged me so that one sounds better to me with a preamp. Again I do prefer passive tone where possible.

 

[Whaleform]

I found no need t

Passive is to me typically a better sound. In a Jazz bass I prefer true single coil tone but not the buzz noise when pickups are not set near identically in volume. I put Aguilar Noiseless on it but the “Sterile” sound bugged me so that one sounds better to me with a preamp. Again I do prefer passive tone where possible.

I agree with you. Active pickups have bothered me both on guitar and bass. incredibly boomy and just unnecessary.. the thought of actives on a fretless isnt appealing at all the more i think of it..

 

[Whaleform]

actives would be superior basically if you are plugging right into an amp without a pedal i guess.. but thats not my case..

Less is more

 

[Whaleform]

I found this post on reddit very helpful

"On Darkglass's "deluxe" models, the EQ section is a MASTER EQ—the final stage—meaning it ALSO affects the "blend" signal. Dial your blend all the way to the clean signal, then fiddle with the EQ and you will hear it working. When you use Active PU's, you're putting an EQ before everything—meaning you can adjust the pre-EQ to affect the drive circuit in a different way (this is essentially what the grunt and attack switches do—they introduce select high and low frequency boosts BEFORE the drive circuit.) With this in mind, consider that the non-deluxe units are a great option if you play actives.

When you run a passive bass into an active preamp such as the Darkglass products or similar, you are essentially using an active bass—the only difference is that you have the preamp in an external housing as opposed to being onboard the instrument.
So when you run an active bass into one, you are stacking preamps. This might seem redundant so some players, and super cool to others—your tone is yours and therefore subjective. What's objective is that the more you stack, the more noise you potentially introduce.
"

 

[Zooberwerx]

Nordstrand is an excellent choice...I use the Big Splits. If an active configuration is desired in the future, the passive harness can be easily swapped-out for something like an Audere Classic 4 band / stacked knobs. No boom, no hiss, no noise, no conflicts as it is singularly the most transparent onboard pre I've installed.

Sounds like a fun project.

Riis

 

[micguy]

The big singes will hum. The Big splits are very close tonally, and will not.

 

[smo]

Depends on your uses.

For a fretless I love to use at least an overdrive & an EQ pedal. The EQ I favour is the StoneDeaf PDF-1X for finding those mids that work so well for fretless, then being able to boost them clean/dirty in or out. Fun pedal.

IME, massive hot pickups generally work brilliantly with amps, but not too well with some pedals. Fuzz pedals especially, can over-saturate and sound a bit off with huge over-wound hot pickups. If you're a big fan of fuzz pedals, I'd consider this.

 

[deepestend]

Also, don't sleep on the nordstrand Zen Blades. Lots of people love their tone.

 

[Whaleform]

i Opted for the Big Rig in both the neck and bridge after some consideration

 

[Whaleform]

Also, don't sleep on the nordstrand Zen Blades. Lots of people love their tone.

i looked at the comparison of the features and it was a close call, but i kept it all big rig!

I went with the Alnico V for my fretless not the recommended 3 . The 3 has more the Jaco old jazz bass sound while im in a metal / rock context for my fretless so the Alnico V brightness will be usefull to add a bit more bite to the fretless

 

[Ggaa]

Had 5 basses that came w/a preamp, but they all went noisy and I didn't replace them. I have an Ibby fretless with Barts with a 3x preamp(for now)and Fatbeams. Sounds great and will when the preamp goes away.

 

[micguy]

I agree with you. Active pickups have bothered me both on guitar and bass. incredibly boomy and just unnecessary.. the thought of actives on a fretless isnt appealing at all the more i think of it..

Most active preamps (A Stingray being an obvious exception) have a setting (often with a detent) where the low end response is flat - on that setting, there will be no more or less "boom" than you would have with a passive bass. You can also dial some out if you want. The place where actives typically make a difference in many cases is tweaking more high end out of the pickups, by lessening the load on them - my beef with active basses is that, on many of them, the treble control is unusable throughout too much of its range - they are too harsh sounding when you boost the treble.

 

[KidAmnesia]

Having an onboard preamp or having it inside a pedal is essentially the same. It is a preamp. The advantage of having an active onboard preamp is that you don't have to reach down or walk to your amp to tweak the eq on the fly. And the advantage of having a passive onboard circuit is that you get a passive tone control that doesn't work just like a treble control on an active preamp.

As far as the "organic woody sound of a fretless" as long as it's plugged to an amplifier, you are not listening to the "organic wood" any more than on any other bass. You can have the preamp's eq section wherever you want it, it won't ruin your tone any more than your pedal preamp is ruining your current bass tone.

If you like the way your bass work, I'd go passive.

 

[ariwax]

I don’t like actives. There, I said it. Over the last thirty years I’ve bought and sold maybe a dozen Stingrays, even more active Jazzes of various makes, five or six Warwicks, a handful of fretless basses with piezos. They’re all gone. I always gravitate back toward passive basses. I’ve got a nice P, an old J, a Mustang, a Hofner Club bass, couple of others. No batteries needed for any of them except for my Yamaha Silent Bass, and that’s a different animal altogether.

To me, less is more; there is definitely such a thing as too many knobs and switches.

I particularly hate the idea of an instrument being unusable because the battery died while it was in the case. I don’t know why, it’s not like the amp can work without electricity either, but there’s just something about a bass that I hate if it needs a battery to work. For whatever reason my EUB is an exception to this rule because it sounds so good, but there are no bad settings on it.

In general I would rather pay for something with good craftsmanship and materials with its own intrinsic tone from honest wood and magnets, than a bunch of microchips that can make a million different sounds.

Just my own preference, to each their own, etc.

 

[Whaleform]

Most active preamps (A Stingray being an obvious exception) have a setting (often with a detent) where the low end response is flat - on that setting, there will be no more or less "boom" than you would have with a passive bass. You can also dial some out if you want. The place where actives typically make a difference in many cases is tweaking more high end out of the pickups, by lessening the load on them - my beef with active basses is that, on many of them, the treble control is unusable throughout too much of its range - they are too harsh sounding when you boost the treble.

On my Ibanez Sms805 i found the active just too harsh for almost everything.. and in a metal context! I really dont get this appeal.. a blend knob and tone with the b7k does what i need it seems..

Having an onboard preamp or having it inside a pedal is essentially the same. It is a preamp. The advantage of having an active onboard preamp is that you don't have to reach down or walk to your amp to tweak the eq on the fly. And the advantage of having a passive onboard circuit is that you get a passive tone control that doesn't work just like a treble control on an active preamp.

As far as the "organic woody sound of a fretless" as long as it's plugged to an amplifier, you are not listening to the "organic wood" any more than on any other bass. You can have the preamp's eq section wherever you want it, it won't ruin your tone any more than your pedal preamp is ruining your current bass tone.

If you like the way your bass work, I'd go passive.

yea absolutely will stick with passive..

I don’t like actives. There, I said it. Over the last thirty years I’ve bought and sold maybe a dozen Stingrays, even more active Jazzes of various makes, five or six Warwicks, a handful of fretless basses with piezos. They’re all gone. I always gravitate back toward passive basses. I’ve got a nice P, an old J, a Mustang, a Hofner Club bass, couple of others. No batteries needed for any of them except for my Yamaha Silent Bass, and that’s a different animal altogether.

To me, less is more; there is definitely such a thing as too many knobs and switches.

I particularly hate the idea of an instrument being unusable because the battery died while it was in the case. I don’t know why, it’s not like the amp can work without electricity either, but there’s just something about a bass that I hate if it needs a battery to work. For whatever reason my EUB is an exception to this rule because it sounds so good, but there are no bad settings on it.

In general I would rather pay for something with good craftsmanship and materials with its own intrinsic tone from honest wood and magnets, than a bunch of microchips that can make a million different sounds.

Just my own preference, to each their own, etc.

im with you . less is more.. and the instrument running out of batteries concept really bothered me too..

magnets over microchips.. its always worked for me..

 

[Whaleform]

what im doing is gonna have 2 3 way switched to go parallel, series and single coil between the 2 bigrig 6 pickups , thats more my style