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New to Power Amps

#21
Okay so I'm not really looking for whether I should use my setup or not, I'm just looking how to power it, I'm not sure if I need 2000w either, that's the point of my post...

I'm running 2 2x10s both rated around 900w and a subwoofer that is rated about the same. We have a subwoofer and nice p.a. system in the bands I work w/. I play a specialized bass and require a dedicated sub if you must know.

So really I need suggestions on a power amp that can run this for me and how to run it at this point.
 
#22
I have been experimenting with a lightened up and more portable rack set up that approaches what you speak of. This is where I have currently settled. My venerable old Asdown RPM-1 preamp and a Peavey IPR 3000. If I remember correctly it gives 840w @ 4ohms per channel. My crossover is in the preamp and controlled from the backside of it. With this rack I go full tilt into either two 8x10 cabs but mainly into two 1x18 cabs for the lows and two 1x15 cabs for the highs. It will literally warp space time. Keep in mind, I am fretless player and I am known in my world as one of the loudest bass players in existence and my "band" is a loud as hell alternative drum and bass all original music duo. Guitar players absolutely hate me. But if I must play with a twiddler on stage I can also just run one channel of this using the full range output of the preamp to one 8x10 or an 18 and 15 cab in parallel. I also use an Ashdown RM800 EVO head through a single 8x10 for a more trimmed down approach that is still silly loud.

But I digress. I have always been pleased with Peavey power amps and these IPRs can be gotten fairly cheap. I paid $250 for this one. So it might be a good place to start


20211115_133048.jpg
 
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#23
I have exactly what you are looking for (see avatar), a Pre amp (Eden Navigator stereo pre-amp that includes an adjustable crossover for Bi-amping, side chain controls , left-right, and stereo XLR outs, compression, not to mention a great EQ section..In addition I have a 1250 watt stereo Power amp.

Frankly in these days of full range cabinets, I find the zero need for the bi-amping features. The two cabs that I use are different (porting, frequency range and wattage capabilities) but are both full range cabs. I do use the the stereo control on occasion to balance the cabs, usually due to room acoustics. Being honest, for most gigs however I use one 210 cab and a 300 watt tube amp, and by todays standards even that is considered extreme overkill.

Also in my distant past, I had a Rick 4001 and ran it in ROS with two rigs as well as several attempts at bi-amping. In all of that, my experience, while most of that was really good for me as the bassist, it was of limited value to the band as a whole, and totally inconsequential to the audience.

I will say this, rigs like that will attract a lot of other bassists, most when they go to their next gig are taking a sub 8lb bass and a 30lbs combo thinking we are totally off or gourd. Which I am BTW.
 
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#24
Lenny JG said:
So really I need suggestions on a power amp that can run this for me and how to run it at this point.
Click to expand...
Basically, a pre-amp like @dbsfgyd1 mentioned that can handle the frequency dividing, high-side output and low-side output each going to one channel of a basic stereo amp ("basic" meaning it has no processing of its own).

Or, a mono preamp with the output split (i.e. a "y" splitter) send to both channels of a stereo amp with built-in DSP processing. One amp channel would be for the high frequencies, one for the low frequencies.

As far as what amp, people typically like to know your budget before making recommendations.


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Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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#26
I ran biamp rigs back in the day, and I would not repeat it today, especially if I were playing rooms with good front-of-house with subs.

Two problems for me were

1) Of course you need two or three times the power for the sub to seem 'even' with the upper cabinets, whether PA or a 2-way system for bass like we're talking about here. That rules out a lot of bass guitar bins right off the bat if you're playing in a loud band. Plus, you will definitely hear a time lag between the time you hear the uppers and the subs, which can be disconcerting. It will also cook your bandmates, and believe me, the guy mixing you live will NOT be thrilled . . . .

2) Bass guitar bins are not meant (or some bodge job of a PA sub and a bass guitar bin) to stack as two- or three-way interlocking systems as PA bins are, so matching them into something that sort of works 2-way is difficult.

We did it back then, as high-powered amps with cabinets capable of surviving said power were non-existent, and the big rigs we had back then like SVT's or Acoustics had a 'bassy tone', but were nothing to write home about if you needed to be loud and clean. We certainly went too far the other way with big racks and quasi- or outright PA bins for a bass rig, but it was a stop-gap to today, when amps/cabs, and the PA's to reproduce them are light years better then a world with Peavey boards and Voice of the Theaters out front.

I'm sure their are several preamp pedals with line-level outs that would drive a commercial power amp, or of course their are still rack-mount bass preamps, some even with variable crossovers onboard, like an Alembic F-1X. The cabinets are the problem.
 
#27
paskisti said:
I wouldn't either do biamping, but at least DSP power amp doesn't exclude the option. They (Crown XLS) has 2 options for input sensitivity too and should take bass preamp signals like Darkglass has just fine even they are not pro audio level. Sansamp can drive all the power amps in pro audio range.

What I have tried PA type sub + speaker configurations, they are less than ideal for bass amp amplification. You basically need IR cab sim and/or modeling to make good useful sound.

2x 410, 1x 810, 2x 212 or 1x 412 bass cab would do the loud set with much less hassle and sound naturally very good for bass.
Click to expand...

Good call. FWIW and if going with the DriveCore XLS, look for the "xx02" series as the earlier versions don't have the input sensitivity option.

Riis
 
#30
The 2x10s are rated 900w and 8ohm and I daisy chain them, and the sub is actually only 400w and impedance unknown for that.

I think for all intents and purposes I'll just say that none of it has a brand name. So whatever you would suggest to power that would be great. Thanks again.
 
#31
chadds said:
Power amps want to see a certain input voltage. .775v or 1.5v. This is not the same as -10 or +4. Check your amp and check your pre. Some manufacturers will state a voltage that happens if all controls are dimed. Not idling.
Click to expand...

Wait a minute, -10dBu and +4dBu relate directly to voltage. The conversation is trivial.

Lenny JG said:
The 2x10s are rated 900w and 8ohm and I daisy chain them, and the sub is actually only 400w and impedance unknown for that.

I think for all intents and purposes I'll just say that none of it has a brand name. So whatever you would suggest to power that would be great. Thanks again.
Click to expand...
I know of no 210 on the market that can safely handle 900 watts RMS below 50Hz, certainly not with a voicing appropriate for bass guitar.

My suggestion is to first really understand how power handling works, THEN choose an amp with a power raring similar to the safe mechanical power handling of the speakers.

Be sure you understand the different metrics used, RMS is the most reliable way to describe and compare the power of amps and speakers. Beware of any ratings that use program, peak, burst, etc.
 
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#32
agedhorse said:
Wait a minute, -10dBu and +4dBu relate directly to voltage. The conversation is trivial.


I know of no 210 on the market that can safely handle 900 watts RMS below 50Hz, certainly not with a voicing appropriate for bass guitar.

My suggestion is to first really understand how power handling works, THEN choose an amp with a power raring similar to the safe mechanical power handling of the speakers.

Be sure you understand the different metrics used, RMS is the most reliable way to describe and compare the power of amps and speakers. Beware of any ratings that use program, peak, burst, etc.
Click to expand...
For my/our education please explain. I learned that the -10 and +4 related to consumer or pro levels of output of for instance tape gear into mixers vs home receivers. The .775 or 1.5 were for matching pro level preamps or mixers with pro power amps. What the amps wanted to "see."
 
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#35
Lenny JG said:
So do you have any suggestions on what power amp you would use to run it?
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off the top of my head look at the QSC GX7

reasonably light weight, tons of power, american-made, analog (no menus or digital latency or firmware updates or any of that :meh:), and has a crossover setting at 100Hz between the two sides

q_amp_GX_img_heroBack.jpg

only thing is it's fairly "deaf" at a 1.2V input sensitivity, you'd need a real line level preamp to drive it
 
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#36
As I said before, it depends on the cabinet's REAL WORLD mechanical power handing.

If it is really say 500-600 watts RMS, than any amp with a rated power of 300-600 watts RMS into 8 ohms would be a reasonable choice.

Since I do not know of any 210 speaker capable of 900 watts RMS, I will not make a recommendation for that.
 

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