new USA L2500 vs. Tribute

[eatcg]

Had a chance to compare a new US L2500 and a used Tribute with some puzzling results. With pickup heights being equal, the Tribute sounded noticeably louder and fuller at all settings, while the US L was rather timid and sterile in comparison.

The US L had the stock strings, Tribute — could not tell. They weren't the stock D'Addarios, the ball ends were brass, strung through the bridge, had a deep grey smoky luster to them. Any guesses?

Of course, there is a slight chance the Tribute has been modified, but assuming it has not, what else could be so different? Are the electronics the same or do they still use the bass boost capacitors? It did sound closer to my old 4+1 USA L2500 (and it trumped the new L the same way).

Finally, could something have been wrong with the USA L's electronics that would have degraded the performance like that? Does this sound like a warranty case or does the new L just need different strings?

 

[Ken Baker]

Had a chance to compare a new US L2500 and a used Tribute with some puzzling results. With pickup heights being equal, the Tribute sounded noticeably louder and fuller at all settings, while the US L was rather timid and sterile in comparison.

That is kind of odd. They should be very close, all else being equal.

The US L had the stock strings, Tribute — could not tell. They weren't the stock D'Addarios, the ball ends were brass, strung through the bridge, had a deep grey smoky luster to them. Any guesses?

Not a clue. Unless.... If the silks were red and the strings were flats, you could have been looking at Thomasik-Infeld Flats. These are low tension and loud & full sounding.

Of course, there is a slight chance the Tribute has been modified, but assuming it has not, what else could be so different?

Hard to say, but if the USA sounded really bad thin it could have something wrong in the cavity. Assuming healthy electronics the difference should not be huge, except for string differences which can be pretty dramatic. Or the battery.

Are the electronics the same or do they still use the bass boost capacitors?

The electronics, specifically the preamp, are slightly different but functionally equivalent. No "bass boost caps", which are in reality treble cut caps, in modern L series basses - domestic or import.

It did sound closer to my old 4+1 USA L2500 (and it trumped the new L the same way).

The modern basses should sound a bit more... well, modern, than their old relatives. This is due to pickup winding differences more than anything else. An old v1.0 preamp will sound a bit different than the current v1.1, but not necessarily strikingly different.

Finally, could something have been wrong with the USA L's electronics that would have degraded the performance like that?

Sure. Could have needed a fresh battery. Could be pretty much anything that could go wrong. I'd have asked for a fresh battery. I'd have also asked to play it without a battery. If it still sounded kinda crappy, then it needs professional attention.

Does this sound like a warranty case or does the new L just need different strings?

Without hands on the bass and going through the motions that I'd go through in troubleshooting, it's nearly impossible to say. Strings will make a difference - sometimes a big one. So can a battery, particularly if the bass has been in the store a while and they left it plugged in.

Short answer - I dunno. Anything more than that is conjecture.

Ken...

 

[Hugh Jass]

The US L had the stock strings, Tribute — could not tell. They weren't the stock D'Addarios, the ball ends were brass, strung through the bridge, had a deep grey smoky luster to them. Any guesses?

Grey? sounds like stainless steel which would be a bit louder.....

 

[eatcg]

Thank you, Ken.

Not a clue. Unless.... If the silks were red and the strings were flats, you could have been looking at Thomasik-Infeld Flats. These are low tension and loud & full sounding.

I use TI Jazz Rounds on my fretless basses and love them

No, those weren't TIs. All metal, no silks.

That is kind of odd. They should be very close, all else being equal.
...
Hard to say, but if the USA sounded really bad thin it could have something wrong in the cavity. Assuming healthy electronics the difference should not be huge, except for string differences which can be pretty dramatic. Or the battery.

Yes, I found that surprising too. Oh yeah, the Tribute also felt a bit lighter.

The difference was nothing striking, but it's definitely there — same as with my old 2500. All the controls on the new 2500 worked correctly and pretty much identically, and it played OK, especially after getting used to it for a minute, just quieter and with less life to it. Couldn't have been the body, could it...

Without hands on the bass and going through the motions that I'd go through in troubleshooting, it's nearly impossible to say. Strings will make a difference - sometimes a big one. So can a battery, particularly if the bass has been in the store a while and they left it plugged in.

Would love to hear you elaborate on the motions part.

 

[Ken Baker]

Yes, I found that surprising too. Oh yeah, the Tribute also felt a bit lighter.

Light is good. Usually.

The difference was nothing striking, but it's definitely there — same as with my old 2500. All the controls on the new 2500 worked correctly and pretty much identically, and it played OK, especially after getting used to it for a minute, just quieter and with less life to it. Couldn't have been the body, could it...

Ah! I got the impression that the difference was fairly large. Body wood will make a difference, and it usually isn't huge. Most will hear it in the responsiveness of the bass - how lively it sounds. Some woods just help create a snappier sound than others, and they aren't necessarily harder. Bridge & neck attachment is important here.

Would love to hear you elaborate on the motions part.

Check the electronics for connection issues. Simple stuff like look for loose connections and solder joints.

Make sure both coils of each pickup are working. This is just a tap test in either series or parallel mode.

Replace the battery. I do this with every bass as soon as it gets home. Gets me to a known place.

Go through the instrument and make sure that all the screws are properly tightened. I'll loosen the strings so that they're flopping around. Then I'll loosen the neck screws and re-tighten them. I'll make sure that the bridge attachment screws & bolts (EBMM) are properly tightened (see below). I'll carefully, because they're small, check the tuner attachment screws and the string retainer screw(s).

As for the bridge: grrr.... If it's a 4 string bridge, all that's needed is to make sure the screws are tightened properly and not stripped out. If it's a five string bridge, it's really important to string thru-body because there are only two small wood screws holding the bridge down. Or do the bolt-down bridge mod.

Once all this is done, which doesn't really take that long unless you're modding, re-tune to pitch.

Check setup, adjust intonation if necessary, and be sure the saddle lock set screw is nice & snug.

Except for the electronics, most of the above has to do with making sure the instrument is put together properly so that string vibration is optimally transferred to the body. Of these, the neck & bridge attachment is most important.

So there you have it. In general and not necessarily in that order. Sometimes more, usually less. Kind of depends on the bass.

The whole list would be done on a new bass - import or USA.

Ken...

 

[ric stave]

One thing that could REALLY make a difference - the series/parallel switch (middle switch of the 3) on the Tributes and the USA bass usually come opposite - that is, the USA switch is in parallel mode when towards the bridge, and series towards the neck. The Tribute seems to be more or less Parallel 'down' (towards the knobs) and series 'up' (towards the strings) - at least, this is how they've been on the tribbies I've had. If you compared the basses while the Tribute was in series and the USA in Parallel, everything else the same, the Tribby would seem much louder.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Make sure both coils of each pickup are working. This is just a tap test in either series or parallel mode.

+1


(Although my wife reports that the replacement one just came in the mail today )


Back on topic: Mine sounded anything but weak and sterile even with a dead coil. Can't wait to whip out the soldering iron when I get home!

As Ken mentioned, check the US one to see if the bridge is pulling away from the body if it is strung to the bridge.

 

[mmbongo]

The US L had the stock strings, Tribute — could not tell. They weren't the stock D'Addarios, the ball ends were brass, strung through the bridge, had a deep grey smoky luster to them. Any guesses?

G&L's come with SIT Strings from the factory..not D'adds.

 

[Ken Baker]

G&L's come with SIT Strings from the factory..not D'adds.

Nope. Used to, but not anymore. It's been quite some time since SIT strings have been used on the new ones.

It's been D'Addarios for a few years now.

Ken...

 

[xr6fan]

I tried a US L2500 and a Tribute in a shop about 12 months ago.

They both sounded good and I had a slight preference for the Tribute in terms of sound (both played through the same amp with a flat eq.

However, I didn't hear anything that would make me want to give up either my L5000s or L5500. You can't beat Vintage G&L in my book (at least vintage 5 strings).

Jamie

 

[mmbongo]

Nope. Used to, but not anymore. It's been quite some time since SIT strings have been used on the new ones.

It's been D'Addarios for a few years now.

Ken...

Well dang. I wonder what happened to them using SIT? I always respected G&L for using them.

 

[Ken Baker]

Well dang. I wonder what happened to them using SIT? I always respected G&L for using them.

Unless a manufacturer makes its own strings, as does EBMM, it becomes mostly a matter of money. So long as the chosen strings don't sound crappy, and most don't on a G&L, itboils down to dollars.

Ken...

 

[jimmy rocket]

The US L had the stock strings, Tribute — could not tell. They weren't the stock D'Addarios, the ball ends were brass, strung through the bridge, had a deep grey smoky luster to them. Any guesses?

I guess DR lowriders. I've got them on right now and they've got a deep smokey gray luster to them. They also gave my tribby a deeper fuller sound than those D'ad's

 

[eatcg]

Thanks to all who replied, especially guru Ken!

All coils work, and it was the Tribute that was strung through the bridge, and the bridge was not lifting off.

On the screw tightness note, I idly wonder what would be the long term effect of improperly tightened neck screws gone unnoticed.

 

[Ken Baker]

On the screw tightness note, I idly wonder what would be the long term effect of improperly tightened neck screws gone unnoticed.

Depends on what is improper.

If not tight enough, they could work their way loose(r) until things get ugly. The bass won't sound right because of poor coupling to the wood. Tuning and intonation will become problematic.

If over-tightened to the point that the threads cut by the screw are stripped, the effect will be like the above.

If over-tightened to the point that the threads cut by the screw are on the bitter edge of stripping, vibration could cause them to slowly strip out. I've never seen this happen, but it is possible if the assembly person is overly zealous with a power screwdriver.

Ken...

 

[eatcg]

Well, the bridge grounding wire was found dangling loosely in the bridge cavity. Amazing how much difference a small piece of foil has made.