Newbie question about pickups

[Inconnu]

OK, I haven't took the time to read the all thing, but here's a short version of what's been probably written so far:

-Yes, pickups are 80% of the bass' tone, if it's a P bass get quater powders or geezer butlers...
-No, it's the wood... nothing sounds as good as good wood
- Its all about your fingers! You'll never sound like Geddy, Steve, James, Victor, Marcus, Stanley, Cliff, Jaco or who ever else..

Well, that said, I dare answer with a question:

- Do you like your sound?

 

[bassbully]

A car needs an engine to run right? Even if it looks great and is built well a car needs an engine or its just a good looking shell of a car.

To me a bass's pickup is it's engine. Sometimes changing them make all the difference in the world to its sound.

 

[JimmyM]

That's just plain C.S...... James and you know it. All you're trying to do is inflame opinions for your cause - which to a semisharp mind is just trying to paint what I said as hogdrippings.

Realistically, what I said in so many prosaic words as you suggested not so much between the lines - was that I was totally against his changing p'ups because no-one cared if he did or didn't.

That's where your porcine detergent comes in.

The irony is overwhelming.

Sure - an audience wants to hear classy music - whatever style, although a few come to mind where nothing at all matters but the drums.

That's the opinion of someone who doesn't like certain styles of music where the drums are often featured. Which is fine, but if it were really true, then drummers would just tour and record without a band

I digress.

The reason to NOT change the p'ups as the OP was asking for permission to do, was rife with expectations that doing so would be make him sound better (a knee-jerk reflex to that would be answered: "define 'better'") as a bass player..... whom or what at this point in time he is not really capable of defining.

He's a n00b at playing - at least until he has a couple of basses under his belt, a few paying gigs and perhaps some studio time. Certainly: more experience

I don't think you need to wait THAT long, but I do feel that you should actually get the bass in hand and play on it for at least a few days before you decide whether the pickup is a keeper or not.

I have to defer to you though as you have numerous television shows under your belt, having played with musical groups of somewhat decent followings, and yet you bait your statements with non-relevant reactionary verbiage as you have just proffered --- again.

"The audience doesn't care" is a piss-poor reason not to shoot for the best sound you can have, no matter who you are or what your level of competency is. First off, I believe that it's flat-out snobbery because I've had many an audience member comment on my sound, and they actually knew what they were talking about. And there are many people who come to shows and can actually play instruments. They may not be pros, but they know what good is. Second, forget about the audience for a second...there are people who may want to give you money to play with their band, and if you don't impress them, you won't get the money. And that not only includes playing well but it also includes sounding good as they define it.

Now you give me a bit more credit than I deserve because it's rare I'm ever on TV but I do play with one of the top bands in the field of backing up 50's-60's-70's music shows with some of the top artists of their time, and while I'm not rich or playing with McCartney-level acts, I do get paid pretty well compared to most musicians I know. I didn't get there by making "boom boom sounds" with gear that sounds like crap. I got there by playing well and making appropriate sounds for the music I'm playing using gear that I was confident could deliver whatever was needed. And like I said, if a bass I was using wasn't cutting it, I'd either mod it till it did or I'd get rid of it. And THAT is how you make people want to give you money for playing.

Give the n00b a break and just tell him the truth that he needs more time and to not change somewhat important parts on his bass until he knows more of what he's doing

I will not. When you play an instrument that gives you "The Sound," it is inspiring, and it allows you to forget about the instrument altogether and concentrate on your playing. When you play an instrument that doesn't give you "The Sound," you end up trying to fight it and you get distracted. Now do I think you need to have the instrument in hand and play it for a little while before you make that determination? Absolutely. Some basses have excellent stock pickups. But if the kid has the money and is unhappy with the sound he's getting, not a thing in the world wrong with changing the pickups. Research is needed so you don't get something that makes things worse, but there's nothing wrong with experimenting.

"Strings-first" would have been a kinder, nicer - albeit cheaper - reply

Strings are also important. But I've never had a set of strings overcome a crap pickup, and let's face it...many basses Fender puts out these days have crap pickups.

Cans of worms are certainly being opened here (again) and such inflammatory statements (again) that grandiosely sweeps sentiments (again) that music quality is important and by inference alone, what I said isn't pertinent

The OP can read what you said and make his own determination whether it's pertinent. But saying "the audience doesn't care" and all they want is "boom boom sounds" is extremely dismissive and doing not only him but yourself and the audience a disservice.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Unless you "know" what you want soundwise--- changing pickups, will change the sound-- but what sound are you after?
String choice is CHEAPER and can make a HUGE difference in sound (get them at bassstringsonline.com)

Suggest, IF you are looking for hot and Dark--- Dimarzio
Hot and Bright (scooped) Seymour Duncan QP
Clear clean compressed standard EMG
Great clear and punchy EMG Geezer Butlers
Classic, warm "Round" SD antiquity or Fender MIA (look at Darren Riley for sourcing fender parts Fender Precision Bass pickups)
Hard to go wrong with Bill Lawrence P46 (aka Wilde pickups [Invalid or Expired Link Removed])
Wide range really bright and HOT? G&L MFD's (Pickup - SB-2 / SB1 MFD)

I omitted barts, because I never really liked their character in a p bass love them elsewhere just not in a p.

 

[Nev375]

Didn't you ask pretty much the same question yesterday?

 

[line6man]

My question is i'm thinking about changing out the stock pickups to something else. What advice does anyone have. Will it make a difference to the over all sound. And if so what would you suggest. Do the American made P Bass come with a different and better set of pickups. Or is there a after market set you might suggest....

You have the wrong mindset about upgrading pickups. You can't classify pickups as "better" or "worse." It isn't universal. There are hundreds of different "flavors" and you need to have a specific picture of what you are looking for, before you can consider what will be an upgrade over what you already have. One player's perfect set of pickups might be another player's nightmare. For example, if you wanted a very warm tone, you would not want to blindly take up someone's suggestion for something that was ice pick bright.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

That's just plain C.S...... James and you know it. All you're trying to do is inflame opinions for your cause - which to a semisharp mind is just trying to paint what I said as hogdrippings.

Realistically, what I said in so many prosaic words as you suggested not so much between the lines - was that I was totally against his changing p'ups because no-one cared if he did or didn't.

That's where your porcine detergent comes in.

Sure - an audience wants to hear classy music - whatever style, although a few come to mind where nothing at all matters but the drums.

I digress.

The reason to NOT change the p'ups as the OP was asking for permission to do, was rife with expectations that doing so would be make him sound better (a knee-jerk reflex to that would be answered: "define 'better'") as a bass player..... whom or what at this point in time he is not really capable of defining.

He's a n00b at playing - at least until he has a couple of basses under his belt, a few paying gigs and perhaps some studio time. Certainly: more experience.

I have to defer to you though as you have numerous television shows under your belt, having played with musical groups of somewhat decent followings, and yet you bait your statements with non-relevant reactionary verbiage as you have just proffered --- again.

Give the n00b a break and just tell him the truth that he needs more time and to not change somewhat important parts on his bass until he knows more of what he's doing.

"Strings-first" would have been a kinder, nicer - albeit cheaper - reply.

Cans of worms are certainly being opened here (again) and such inflammatory statements (again) that grandiosely sweeps sentiments (again) that music quality is important and by inference alone, what I said isn't pertinent.









.

That was the first suggestion I made, figure out what sound you are looking for, strings first. , and gave a brief overview of suggested pickups with tonal overviews.
Can't we all just get along?

Oh and the "audience does not care" just sounds curmudgeonly and jaded, contributes nothing.
I'm an audience member as often as I'm a player, and even before I played, I CARED!
so sad that someone would try to stifle someone from trying to find their sonic voice.

Nothing worse than seeing a group, that can play their buts off, that sound like a transistor radio, in a cardboard box

 

[Honch]

Well, to all of you who doesn't think it matters. Give yourself a try, by choosing any bass that has a bolt on neck which is easily swapped out.
Now for this empirical experiment do this:

1. Try changing out, each item at a time, and see/hear/feel for yourself which has the MOST DRAMATIC impact on your bass:
2. Change out strings. From flatwounds, roundwounds, new, old, stainless steel, nickel alloys, coated and everything in between.
3. Let all other items as is.
4. Change out THE NECK with buying another wood, another fretboard, but leave everything else as is.
5. Change out the BODY (!?) yes the body, but keep everything else as is.
6. Change out steel hardware, bridge, frets, nuts, zero frets, hyperlite tuners, but leave everything else as is.
7. Record them to a high end audio card and high level DAW, for keeping track of the changes. Do notes of what you'll hear.
8. Now as a last swap, change out pickups ONLY, leave everything else as is.

Your bass may end up totally bastardized but you should be able to swap everything out without drilling new holes or modify it in any way. Everything you change out should fit at existing drilled holes everywhere. Now, take record and make notice of which ones did the drastically most dramatic change to the sound of them all. Chances are that it is number 2) AND 8) at equal measure.

It's just like changing out strings. Some people do not like new string zzzing tone. Some do. Same with pickups, some likes hi-fidelity like EMG, Q-Tuner, Joe Barden etc, and some does not. Just and only taste, nothing else. But a difference they will make.

There's absolutely no point in changing out cheaply made pickups to just another brand cheaply made. Which has the same low output poor shielding, with hum and noise present. Some people I know, just bought parts, neck and body for a J or P bass from Warmoth and/or ALLPART and/or USACG and leave it as a platfrom for changing out things all of the time. Mostly a P/J bass with both Precision pickups and a Jazz bass pickup at bridge position. They have no problems with spare time.

- - - - - - - - - - -

Anecdotal reference:

The first time I heard "Ric-O-Sound" I wondered what kind of bass it was. It was a Rickenbacker. It wasn't actually Chris Squire, neither McCartney nor Enthwistle. But the big change in sound that perked up everybody elses ear wasn't until mr Squire started to use Roundwounds on his Rickenbacker. John Enthwhistle wasn't the first with this one, he had a different sound. Now much to the company Rickenbackers chagrin, they had many warranty returns for all these people were starting to play with roundwounds which chewed up the soft alloy in the frets in no time. They HATED Chris Squire. They had to change the frets out, and no one really complained or notice the very very subtle change in sound (if any at all), they just dealt with it. So to me, a Ric with flatwounds doesn't really tell it, and I find it "of no use" using it on a Ric. If you want a "period" sound from the 60s it may be ok, but the sound of the pickups of a Ric, together with "Ric-O-Sound" works best IMHO with roundwounds. But that - as I told you before - is still just about TASTE (as with the spices analogy) and you mileage may - of course - vary. There's no one who has "preferential right of interpretation" of what strings or pickups you should use. But general rule of thumb, different kind of pickups do as much difference to the sound, as well as strings does. I think those two are of equal importance, strings and pickups together. Because, if we'll put it bluntly, no strings will not get you any sound, regardless of pickup.

 

[Honch]

The market for 3rd party pickups blossomed FIRST in the 70s when they cranked up all amps. First in electric guitar, DiMarzio was the first to up the output and make all pikcups hotter. With that came low noise and no hum even if single coil. Numerous variants on the "humbucker in single coil shell" has been made since that time. Same with DiMarzio bass pickups. At first, there were just replacement pickups for J or P. When people bought cheapo japanese copies, they swapped out to DiMarzios.

Later on, well through the 80s, people thought that high output and no hum ...had some trade offs especially in dynamics. When you played hard and wanted to make a note louder than the rest, it sounded level with notes produce with just caressing the string. I e some limiting and compression occured in the pickup as such. Which made DiMarzios and hotter pickups only suitable for the loudest rock and metal ensembles.

So third party pickups went down in output, and with it, came the noise and hum back somewhat. People wanted the dynamics back, especially on bass, since dynamics playing is important in any kind of groove. Today, there's a plethora and jungle of pickups, and especially Seymour Duncan and the like, has so many different models on the line, that it is virtually impossible to keep track of which pickup does what. They - Seymour Duncan - has about 250 - 300 models (discontinued included) available (guitars + bass included). Not to tell about the other big players, DiMarzio, Fender themselves, Lace, Gibson, Bartolini, Lollar, all these boutique brands, hand wounds, all added. For me personally, I don't think the world needs another "also-ran" pickup maker that sits in the basement wounding his/her own pickups in his own way, and tells us it's the next best thing to sliced bacon.

Bill Lawrence had the only stance and design options I liked that didn't cost a fortune: THOU SHALT NOT HUM. I do like Joe Bardens too, but they're a tad too expensive, for what they really do. Joe Barden are not well known for their bass pickups, they just have a 2-3 model range too. Easy to keep track of.

Lawrence and Joe Barden are totally opposite ends of the price range. Lawrence has the price down, and very good value for the money (if you like the sound in the first place of course). Joe Barden if you're posh and wants to go boutique and if you don't care about what a pickup costs. If you want to go to eleven .... hundred (literally, in dollars) you should choose Seymour Duncans Zephyr silver series. For - actually - no reason really.

 

[chris_b]

There is an instant loop of vibration when you pluck a string. The bridge and nut transfer the vibrations through the body, neck and head and back to the strings which then are picked up by the pickups. Every part of a bass including materials (the wood, metal, electrics), design and construction will affect it's sound. How can anyone believe that only one part of a bass is responsible for the sound?

If anyone thinks pickups are the only thing that makes a bass sound good or bad. . . . which part of the pickup do you think dead spots come from?

The builders of cheaper basses will have taken sort cuts and made cost savings. Sometimes those decisions will adversely affect the sound of the instrument. Many players won't notice or won't care, but if a bass feels nice to play and sounds average just change the pickups.

IMO if I owned a bass that had any "issues" I'd sell it and buy another bass that did all I wanted right out of the box.

 

[Honch]

How can anyone believe that only one part of a bass is responsible for the sound?

No but less so than others, all parts and material contributes to the end result, but the first thing that strikes you are the pickups sound. The rest is secondary, like sustain, decay. The design of the instrument matters even more than material, read on...

If anyone thinks pickups are the only thing that makes a bass sound good or bad. . . . which part of the pickup do you think dead spots come from?

Neither pickups nor wood, or other hardware. It's design. Read the infamous interview with Gene Fields, the only way to remove dead spot was to remove the head, completely. First headless was born. But to the powers that be looked too alien to sell.

Fender Headless Bass

Neither wood, metal, or anything else helped. Some say that the SCALE of the strings removes dead spots, everything else being equal. Long and short scale?
Sure thing! Impacts the sustain more than any other thing. Longer strings: Longer sustain, period.

Oh BTW: Pickups if they're set too close to the strings, causing magnetic string pull, you'll bet your *** that you'll end up with several dead spots. Pickups can very well be the cause of the dead spots, if placed at the "un-sweet" spots or "sour" spots along any string. Two humbuckers used together in series or pararell (like using neck and bridge pikcup at the same time) can very well cause DEAD SPOTS in the amp, but not at the string, mechanically as such. It's a tad too nitpicky though.

I've yet to see any bass that causes larger output, and getting rid of noise and hum by just changing body wood. Or neck wood. If you have a wood that is "very trebly" and sparkling high end, it doesn't get picked up if the pick up doesn't pick up that high frequency. And if you use flatwound strings as well on top of that. It doesn't get heard at all through any amp. It is actually said too, by such famous boutique builders such as Sheldon Dingwall, that the strings vibrations down to the body from the bridge - i e the point of which the strings resides on - are so minimal that it's really neglible. Especially on totally solid body basses. Chambered and half acoustic bodies are of a different breed, since the strings vibrations goes through the neck too. Wood and design mostly affects the decaying portion of the tone, note.

- - - - -

The only thing which I've heard a subtle difference of, is what is called "direct coupling". It's subtle and slight at best. It doesn't work with all basses guitars or pickups, but just some. It deals with that you have to use a squeeze technique to cram in the pickup into the cavity, so it is embraced and hugged with wood of the body from all it's sides. Even if it's potted and sealed. It's a once set, never swapped out technique. I e if you set it there it's impossible to remove the pickup later on. If one think that is worth the definition and increased sustain from pickups the by all means. The thing it that it keeps and holds the magnets of the pickup more still, and in a grip when faced with string vibration. To some, they screw the pickups down to the bottom to produce some direct coupling. It isn't enough. If I had my way, I would rather have the options to be able to adjust pickup height, pole pieces and change out and service the pickups.

 

[joker820]

Thanks for the tip. Just picked them up.

Nice. I'm happy someone benefitted from the deal. Let us know what your thoughts are.

 

[Michael B]

Nice. I'm happy someone benefitted from the deal. Let us know what your thoughts are.

Excited. Got the tracking # moments ago.

I did the exact swap just last week. Worked out so well I had to buy the PUPs again for another bass.

 

[joker820]

Excited. Got the tracking # moments ago.

I did the exact swap just last week. Worked out so well I had to buy the PUPs again for another bass.

Very nice, I would've grabbed them if I had a P tbh. I have a set of Lollar's to put on my J. Saving them for a rainy day...or whenever I change strings next.

 

[blkpwdr]

Iv'e got a new Fender Precision Bass made in Mexico iv'e had a couple of months now. It's a well built bass for the price i paid. And i'm getting use to it, first P Bass iv'e owned. My question is i'm thinking about changing out the stock pickups to something else. What advice does anyone have. Will it make a difference to the over all sound. And if so what would you suggest. Do the American made P Bass come with a different and better set of pickups. Or is there a after market set you might suggest....

Sorry to ramble.... Thanks for any help with this......Oh my rig right now is an Acoustic Cabinet BN3115

I put Fender 60's custom shop pups in my mim and I love em! Sounds just like a P-Bass should!!

 

[SteveCS]

I put Fender 60's custom shop pups in my mim and I love em! Sounds just like a P-Bass should!!

Not a criticism of you, your bass or the plethora of aftermarket pickups available, but as a general observation it does strike me as a little absurd that something needs to be upgraded or modified to sound like what it already is... If what you say is true, and I've no reason to believe otherwise, perhaps Fender should make the CS60 pickup standard in all Precisions?

 

[JimmyM]

Not a criticism of you, your bass or the plethora of aftermarket pickups available, but as a general observation it does strike me as a little absurd that something needs to be upgraded or modified to sound like what it already is... If what you say is true, and I've no reason to believe otherwise, perhaps Fender should make the CS60 pickup standard in all Precisions?

My 09 AmStd Precision is a truly wonderful bass in every way except the stock pickup. It had the absolute worst pickup I have ever heard in my life. I didn't want to mod it, but I had to, otherwise I'd have had to sell it.

 

[SteveCS]

My 09 AmStd Precision is a truly wonderful bass in every way except the stock pickup. It had the absolute worst pickup I have ever heard in my life. I didn't want to mod it, but I had to, otherwise I'd have had to sell it.

I hear you Jimmy, and I've been there. In previous centuries, companies would improve components then incorporate those into future products as standard. These days you often get little more than basic off the shelf then have to shell out for upgrades to what should be standard. Of course if standard is not good enough then expect to pay, but really it should be...

 

[mcnach]

Didn't you ask pretty much the same question yesterday?

so he posted two similar posts in two days... and?

 

[Nev375]

so he posted two similar posts in two days... and?

It's innefficient and wastes people's time.

You know a mod might want to merge the two threads... Oh wait, it looks like that already happened.