"No dead spots"... WHAT???

[Deleted member 271037]

I currently own over 30 basses. Some are cheap entry level stuff or quirky vintage models but most of them are quite expensive, top-of-the-range or custom made instruments.

I must have owned more than 50 basses over the years.

Counting the basses I've played in stores or borrowed... I must have played HUNDREDS of basses.

EVERY SINGLE ONE of them had dead spots. Some were less noticable that others and the exact location on the neck could vary. But they ALL had dead spots. Bolt-on, neck through, set neck, graphite rods... they ALL have dead spots in my experience.

Looking at the physics behind dead spots I don't understand how it would even be possible to design a resonating wooden instrument such as the bass guitar without any deadspots. Even a device like the Fatfinger, which is designed to "tune out" deadspots, doesn't really remove them. The deadspots are simply moved to other notes.

Yet, hardly a week goes by without reading a NBD thread here on Talkbass where someone says their new bass has "no dead spots".


Which leaves me with these two options:

1) I'm the most unlucky guy ever when it comes to basses and dead spots (plus I must have gotten the science behind deadspots all wrong).

or

2) Lots of people don't really understand what dead spots are. I asked a friend who is a guitar player about this and he thought a dead spot was simply a bad fret. Is this a common misconception?

Anyway, I'm genuinely baffled by the number of claims about "no dead spots" around here, even on the cheapest entry level basses.

So which one is it, 1) or 2)?

 

[BassmanM]

Imho, dead spots have absolutely no effect on at least 95% of all my playing situations. I can hardly imagine a situation where I would need one of those typical notes to ring for forever either. Hence, I do not worry too much about dead spots.

I do not know whether basses with no dead spots whatsoever exist. But just as much as I believe you that you have never owned one without them, I tend to believe those who claim they know of a bass which has none.

Then again, your hearing ability might be above average. In German, we speak of people who "hear the grass growing" or "the fleas coughing"...

 

[Leo Thunder]

I guess I could feel sorry about nitpickers who hear "dead spots" and think they even matter. I don't.

 

[Iristone]

I've never had or played a bass that has dead enough a spot to bother me. Maybe they have, but they don't bother me. In Chinese we say "hear the wind blowing the grass" or "hear a needle falling on the ground".

 

[dasaten]

Graphite/carbon fiber and aluminum necks don't have dead spots from what I understand.

Every bass I've played has had at least one dead spot. It'd be really nice honestly to have a neck where you know it'd never get them.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Imho, dead spots have absolutely no effect on at least 95% of all my playing situations. I can hardly imagine a situation where I would need one of those typical notes to ring for forever either. Hence, I do not worry too much about dead spots.

I do not know whether basses with no dead spots whatsoever exist. But just as much as I believe you that you have never owned one without them, I tend to believe those who claim they know of a bass which has none.

Then again, your hearing ability might be above average. In German, we speak of people who "hear the grass growing" or "the fleas coughing"...

I agree that dead spots wouldn't theoretically have much effect on my playing with most of my basses. But they're still there, to the point that I've gotten a habit of generally avoiding certain areas on the neck (mainly the typical Fender dead spot areas on the G-string). Which means that they DO affect my playing after all. And then there's the basses with dead spots in less typical areas... Of course, if I mainly used ONE bass I could easily adapt and avoid any dead spots. But I mostly do studio work and use lots of different basses for different songs/genres. And every bass is different.

There isn't any way to REALLY get around sympathetic vibrations with wooden instruments, is it? But is it even a sign of a bad instrument? I've been told that with cellos it's usually the best sounding instruments that have the worst wolf tones. And some of my best sounding basses certainly have horrible dead spots. Come to think of it, are dead spots are necessarily a bad thing? Some of my most resonant basses have dead spots that virtually feels like a kick in the guts before the tone abruptly dies into an overtone. Does less pronounced dead spots mean a less resonant instrument? In my experience... maybe. I have by no means done a thorough comparison but my gut feeling says it might, if all else is equal (same basic construcion of neck/body).

As for my hearing I don't think it's better than anyone else but maybe I hear for different things as I'm more of an engineer/bass player.

 

[Volker Kirstein]

If I recall correctly, a "dead spot" is a note that "disappears" into the mix. One generally doesn't notice them playing solo.

You ever do a "Blues in A", and you're walking up from the D, and the 6th, 7th, or octave seem to disappear into the mix? That's a dead spot.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

If I recall correctly, a "dead spot" is a note that "disappears" into the mix. One generally doesn't notice them playing solo.

You ever do a "Blues in A", and you're walking up from the D, and the 6th, 7th, or octave seem to disappear into the mix? That's a dead spot.

They are often bad enough to hear soloed too, even unplugged. You can even SEE them by watching how the string vibrates. But yeah, you're absolutely right that some of them can be a LOT more apparent in a mix.

 

[chris_b]

What can I say? If I've ever had a dead spot on a bass I've never found it.

 

[mongo2]

I find the short scales I've played sound more even and very rarely have the dead/hot spots I've found in long scales I've played.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

All my wood basses have deadspots, but my Steinberger, with carbon graphite neck, doesn't seem to. It probably does, if you had some kind of equipment to monitor it, but if I can't hear it, is it there in any way that matters? It wasn't anything I ever noticed until somebody pointed it out. You will NEVER hear an audience member say "dang, too bad about that 1/8th note in the intro that sounded microscopically different than the preceding and subsequent notes, kinda ruined the performance". Fugeddaboudit.

 

[Vinny_G]

I currently own over 30 basses. Some are cheap entry level stuff or quirky vintage models but most of them are quite expensive, top-of-the-range or custom made instruments.

I must have owned more than 50 basses over the years.

Counting the basses I've played in stores or borrowed... I must have played HUNDREDS of basses.

EVERY SINGLE ONE of them had dead spots. Some were less noticable that others and the exact location on the neck could vary. But they ALL had dead spots. Bolt-on, neck through, set neck, graphite rods... they ALL have dead spots in my experience.

Looking at the physics behind dead spots I don't understand how it would even be possible to design a resonating wooden instrument such as the bass guitar without any deadspots. Even a device like the Fatfinger, which is designed to "tune out" deadspots, doesn't really remove them. The deadspots are simply moved to other notes.

Yet, hardly a week goes by without reading a NBD thread here on Talkbass where someone says their new bass has "no dead spots".


Which leaves me with these two options:

1) I'm the most unlucky guy ever when it comes to basses and dead spots (plus I must have gotten the science behind deadspots all wrong).

or

2) Lots of people don't really understand what dead spots are. I asked a friend who is a guitar player about this and he thought a dead spot was simply a bad fret. Is this a common misconception?

Anyway, I'm genuinely baffled by the number of claims about "no dead spots" around here, even on the cheapest entry level basses.

So which one is it, 1) or 2)?

In my humble opinion and without wanting to offend anyone, if you have played hundreds of basses and none of them have ever satisfied you, the problem could come from elsewhere than the instruments themselves.

If I were in your situation, on the one hand it's the first question I would ask to myself, and on the other hand I would be glad to have had the chance to play as many different basses. I would feel like the luckiest guy on Earth instead of the unluckiest.

I hope I've helped you a little bit.

 

[sikamikanico]

All the basses I’ve had over the years had dead spots. But on 95% other basses I didn’t notice any dead spots. I think the difference is whether I look for them or not

 

[Dave Hill]

I don’t think the OP is saying dead spots ruin an instrument. He just stating that in his experience, they are almost always present.
I agree. I also agree that they shouldn’t ruin the playing experience.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Wood is lovely stuff to look at and touch, but not necessarily the best material for a musical instrument due to its inconsistency in density, rigidity, etc. It's what people had to work with, and it's cheap. Ned Steinberger solved most of what people consider "problems" with a bass guitar 40 years ago, and the market largely rejected it because it didn't look like a Fender. This says a lot more about the market than the bass itself. I think the ideal combination is a wood body with a CF/Graphite neck, no discernible deadspots, traditional look. Win/Win, but people will probably just keep going with wood until we run out of it, or until something else so blatantly sonically superior cracks through tradition.

 

[Jrussblues]

Could you post an audio clip of examples just so everyone is on the same page?

 

[mongo2]

Wood is lovely stuff to look at and touch, but not necessarily the best material for a musical instrument due to its inconsistency in density, rigidity, etc. It's what people had to work with, and it's cheap. Ned Steinberger solved most of what people consider "problems" with a bass guitar 40 years ago, and the market largely rejected it because it didn't look like a Fender. This says a lot more about the market than the bass itself. I think the ideal combination is a wood body with a CF/Graphite neck, no discernible deadspots, traditional look. Win/Win, but people will probably just keep going with wood until we run out of it, or until something else so blatantly sonically superior cracks through tradition.

I've had a couple of wood bodies with graphite necks with no dead spots and I was surprised one day when I as in a shop when a guy brought in a bass with a wood body and aftermarket graphite neck. His complaint was there was a horrendous dead spot that he wanted repaired. The owner had him plug it in and I went over to listen. Sure enough it was there and it was very bad. Since the shop had provided the neck the owner said they would replace it.

 

[davelowell2]

2

 

[BergerHead]

... or until something else so blatantly sonically superior cracks through tradition.

That happened in 1979 when the Steinbergers hit the market, due their continuous density and maximal stiffness no dead spots occur. Wood is and remains a vivid matter with inevitable grain issues and constantly reacting on temperatures and humidity as well ...

 

[mellowinman]

There's simply no such thing. It's a myth.*






















*just messing with you