Note Selection, scale, and chord progression

[Rip Van Dan]

Noob here. Forums are great! Learning a lot. Question about note selection. Let's say the song is in the key of A. So I form a mental image of the A major scale. Now I see the chord progression includes A, D, E, F#, which are the I, IV, V, VI chords. OK - being a noob, I decide that all I will likely play will be Roots, Fifths and maybe a Third occasionally. Well, maybe a walkup/down, but let's not worry about those notes right now.

Now, I see that the Roots and fifths for all the chords in the song happen to hit on an A major scale tone. (too cool!). But, all the thirds hit on a scale note except for the F# chord third. It would have to be a minor third to hit a scale tone. Then some corpuscle comes around and there's something I saw about 6th and minors. Maybe if I looked closer the F# chord was really F#m? Can I play that note (B) or do I flat it (Bb)?

Any words of wisdom?

You've got some great advice and some nice clarity on general theory. However, I'm going to throw a monkey wrench in the works here. When using a blues scale, most of these theories are thrown out the window. And a lot of genres of music steal bits from the blues or are built upon them entirely.

It's pretty common in blues to use dominant 7th chords for both the IV and V and drop some of the notes 1/2-step down on the way down (making it a minor scale run instead of a major scale run) and back up to their normal position when running the scale up. It can get way too confusing to try to give good generalities here. The reason folks are telling you to listen to the song is because different songs in the same key will use different notes than you expect them to.

@SteveCS gave you a nice outline of how it "normally" works, but there are always exceptions to those rules. I'd suggest you learn those rules because they are the basics of music regardless of genre and you need to have a foundation to build upon. But listen to some songs that break those rules so you can get a feel for when and how they are broken and what it does to the overall feeling of the song. Often the way they break those rules defines the genre of the song. Many of the blues runs I use play the minor 7th (dominant 7th) on the way down but the major 7th on the way up. To further confuse you, I often work in chord tones for the chord I'm headed to when going in either direction. Just depends on what sounds good. Get that foundation in place first and then pay attention to what the bass player is doing in the songs you like to hear and want to play.

 

[OogieWaWa]

Theory is great, but don't forget that stepping back and listening for what context or mood the writer wanted to convey will help you determine which of the "correct" notes is the one you want. Having a choice of two theoretically correct notes is great, but picking the wrong one will sound out of place immediately! With ear training, which I advocate also using, those choices become much clearer.

 

[OogieWaWa]

Many of the blues runs I use play the minor 7th (dominant 7th) on the way down but the major 7th on the way up.

An interesting example song, only because I had to learn it a few weeks ago for a retirement; Johnny Paycheck's Take this Job and Shove It. The walk up boldy swaggers it's way using the major 7th, but then tenuously walks back down with the minor.

 

[mambo4]

When using a blues scale, most of these theories are thrown out the window.

Not so much 'out the window' a superseded by additional concepts.

 

[Mushroo]

I studied 8 semesters of music theory in college. Nobody freaked out or threw away the textbook when we got to the unit on the Blues. To continue my earlier analogy, we can look at blues through the exact same telescope we look at pop, rock, jazz, classical, etc.

 

[SteveCS]

Not so much 'out the window' a superseded by additional concepts.

Perhaps 'supplemented', 'enhanced', 'developed' or 'expanded' would be more appropriate than 'superseded', which suggests a high degree of obsolescence. I don't imagine anyone seriously believing that diatonic harmonisation of a key, or the fundamentals of functional harmony to be obsolete. And since the OP is clearly at the start of his/her journey, the basic principles seemed like a good place to start.

 

[Mugre]

No offense but that's a terrible way to learn music theory. That's like trying to learn astronomy by studying the parts of a telescope. Of course it is useful for astronomers to understand how a telescope works. But I am encouraging you to take off the lens cap and look through the telescope at the beautiful night sky. Just as a telescope is a tool for studying the stars, music theory is a tool for studying our favorite songs.

Nicely put. I have my own:

Theory is not what, it's why.

P.A.W: Theory is not a set of rules. It's a set of explanations.

 

[nilorius]

Gary Willis - progressive bassics.

 

[consectaneus]

Rick knows:

That was great. I have been enjoying his "What makes this song great?" series, but never delved into his theory videos. I began this thread sure that there was diatonic harmony, and everything else is substitution. After watching, I still see strict diatonic progression as the foundation, but now I see that parallel and "V of" as just as valid and often more interesting choices. Now I really get what others have said about no right answers here. I still think the OP is well served by starting from the basic rules of major/minor chords built off of the degrees of the major scale to begin with.

 

[iiipopes]

Taking a music theory class that also discusses figured bass is as good a way as any to learn how bass lines work; taking a form and analysis class is as good as any to learn the structure of how verses, choruses, bridges, and common ways to link them work. I did both, and have gotten many more gigs as a bass player in a band than the average person due to the ease of learning repertoire, even originals that may not have a conventional structure.

My best story is auditioning for a televised show in Branson. The scout saw me play a bar gig and asked me to call a certain telephone number if I wanted to audition for a show. The audition was over the phone. The conductor asked me, "Can you read?" I replied, "I am the best sight reader in southwest Missouri." Result, "Great! I'll mail you a contract." And just like that I was in rehearsals for a major PBS TV show.

Without theory, sight reading, form & analysis, and working my @$$ off, I would never have gotten the gig on just a scout's recommendation and a phone call.

 

[juancaminos]

After living through all of this in my early years now I just play what sounds good.

 

[SteveCS]

You've got some great advice and some nice clarity on general theory. However, I'm going to throw a monkey wrench in the works here. When using a blues scale, most of these theories are thrown out the window. And a lot of genres of music steal bits from the blues or are built upon them entirely.

It's pretty common in blues to use dominant 7th chords for both the IV and V and drop some of the notes 1/2-step down on the way down (making it a minor scale run instead of a major scale run) and back up to their normal position when running the scale up. It can get way too confusing to try to give good generalities here.
....

Much of the confusion, IMHO, stems from trying to conceptualise minor key harmony (which is generally poorly understood) through an artificial relationship with the major key concepts (that are more widely understood) instead of looking at it in its own right. Minor key constructs only throw major key constructs out of the window when looked at through the major telescope.

In the same way as what I posted above was to do with the major key, what you list here is diatonic in the minor key, for example the IV7 and V7.

Stevie Wonder's Master Blaster (in Cm) is a great demonstration of using IV7 and V7, alongside both major and minor 6ths (A and Ab) and 7ths (B and Bb) in the minor key, and its all diatonic.

I restricted my first post to major key concepts because the original question was about a harmonic progression that was clearly major in nature.

 

[dreamadream99]

Theory is not a set of rules. It's a set of explanations.

Totally stealing that from now on.