Nut materials, your thoughts

[stedtale]

I have a Gordon Smith GS1 guitar (UK made LP Jnr type) with a brass nut fitted as standard, it has a real 'sting' to it's tone. I tried a plastic nut one day to see if I could get more mellow... I found it had the same fundemental tone, but slightly more hollow and a lot less lively.

Might try brass on my Tokai Jazz with some flats to see if I can get mellow with the flats, but with cut available.

Cool thread, you got me wanting to experiment.

So, it really sounds different one the same bass, strings, pups, etc on fretted notes w/ different nuts? I am very sceptical.

as always:

 

[acleex38]

Currently, ebony (or brass on my old Pedulla MVP).

 

[Tony G]

Huge difference - carbon can be fiberous or not, and carbon can also be emulsified and molded.

Carbon fiber is exactly that - stranded carbon - and is less than ideal for nuts but perfect for structural purposes.

Solid carbon makes a good nut but is hell to work - can only be ground down with abrasives, not cut with blades or files.

Emulsified carbon is ideal as it works easier than solid carbon (though it will still wear hard on files) and can be molded nearer to final shape to minimize dimensioning, etc.

Edit; OT - I have no preference in nut material, but like my nuts to match my fretboards or contrast consistently with the balance of the instrument.

Ok, so why is it then that "graphite" nut seems to be the more accepted term?

 

[CrashClint]

I just put a TUSQ Nut on my Custom Jazz. I think it helped the sustain on open strings.

http://www.graphtech.com/tusq_info.php

My Roscoe has a nice hand carved Alaskan Ivory Nut.

 

[OldG]

So, it really sounds different one the same bass, strings, pups, etc on fretted notes w/ different nuts? I am very sceptical.

as always:

It does for sure on my guitar with a set of .10's on, how that works as the guages get fatter (bass size) I've yet to try, but interested to find out.

Do you know anyone with a Standard guitar with a brass nut mod like a Strat or Tele? You'll be able to hear the difference for yourself. I heard a brass modded tele a while back - sharp enough to make you wince.... needed P90's or humbuckers to tame it ,I thought.

As for sceptical, I'd love a simple nut mod to get me 'that' tone I've been wanting for my Jazz... I'm sure gonna try in hope, not much wasted if it sounds the same, or I somehow don't like it.

 

[stedtale]

It does for sure on my guitar with a set of .10's on, how that works as the guages get fatter (bass size) I've yet to try, but interested to find out.

Do you know anyone with a Standard guitar with a brass nut mod like a Strat or Tele? You'll be able to hear the difference for yourself. I heard a brass modded tele a while back - sharp enough to make you wince.... needed P90's or humbuckers to tame it ,I thought.

As for sceptical, I'd love a simple nut mod to get me 'that' tone I've been wanting for my Jazz... I'm sure gonna try in hope, not much wasted if it sounds the same, or I somehow don't like it.

I honestly don't see how the nut can change the tone when you are fretting the note. The vibrating part of the string is not touching the nut when fretting. I can understand it coloring the tone of open strings.

 

[X Wolf]

I prefer Bone nuts, the basses I've owned with them sound great and I like the way they look too.


George

 

[knarleybass]

Bone for me, because when you shape it on your belt sander it smells like you are at the dentist getting your teeth drilled.

 

[FL Knifemaker]

I'm going to make a mammoth ivory nut. It's easier to work with than carbon fiber and I have scrap material that will work. It looks cool too. It should give my Electra a very, VERY old sound It's millions of years old and still stinks like human teeth as mentioned above.

 

[MAJOR METAL]

There is some great synthetic stuff out there right now to make nuts, very sturdy with no buzzing when cut right.

 

[Rodent]

There is some great synthetic stuff out there right now to make nuts, very sturdy with no buzzing when cut right.

are you saying that there are nut materials that can buzz even when the nut has been cut/installed correctly?

just want to make sure I'm reading this right

all the best,

R

 

[knuckle_head]

Ok, so why is it then that "graphite" nut seems to be the more accepted term?

Graphite is carbon - better stated an allotrope of carbon - much like coal or diamond. It is a difference in structure but pretty much interchangeable.

Where nuts are concerned, the carbon material in most nuts is emulsified graphite, mostly ecause of ease of use. Some nuts are cut directly from carbon blocks similar to the spars used for neck reinforcement. This is the exception, though, as extruded or formed carbon of this sort is lousy to work with and kills tools.

And to beat a dead horse - carbon fiber is drawn carbon much like wire is drawn metal, and needs to be bonded together to have any practical use. Carbon fiber lacks unit density enough to be decent nut material but makes for great structural substrate.

 

[OldG]

[quote stedtale] I honestly don't see how the nut can change the tone when you are fretting the note. The vibrating part of the string is not touching the nut when fretting. I can understand it coloring the tone of open strings.[/quote]

Beats the shizz outta me how it works... but I've had these ears nearly 45 years now - I reckon I can trust them.


Seriously, try a guitar comparison, I hear a marked difference... Gordon Smith guitars are brass at the nut across the range for a reason, surely?

 

[stedtale]

Beats the shizz outta me how it works... but I've had these ears nearly 45 years now - I reckon I can trust them.


Seriously, try a guitar comparison, I hear a marked difference... Gordon Smith guitars are brass at the nut across the range for a reason, surely?

Still don't buy it with fretted notes. Of course on guitar you are using open strings more often...

 

[Tony G]

Graphite is carbon - better stated an allotrope of carbon - much like coal or diamond. It is a difference in structure but pretty much interchangeable.

Where nuts are concerned, the carbon material in most nuts is emulsified graphite, mostly ecause of ease of use. Some nuts are cut directly from carbon blocks similar to the spars used for neck reinforcement. This is the exception, though, as extruded or formed carbon of this sort is lousy to work with and kills tools.

And to beat a dead horse - carbon fiber is drawn carbon much like wire is drawn metal, and needs to be bonded together to have any practical use. Carbon fiber lacks unit density enough to be decent nut material but makes for great structural substrate.

Thanks for all the help knuckle_head! So, if I understand what you are saying, most "graphite" nuts are in one form or another emulsified graphite? So technically calling them a "graphite" nut isn't exactly wrong, just short sighted?

 

[All_¥our_Bass]

Will you guys stop talking about your nuts already?

 

[T-Bird]

Hi, all.

Graptech is the answer for me when it comes to electrical instruments. Bone for acoustics.

The nut material changes the tone of the resonating part of the string between the nut and the fretting finger. Since bass strings tend to be heavier than guitar strings, the resonance frequency is too low and the ampitude too small to be noticeable.

With guitar strings the difference can be heard easier since there's usually more energy transferred to the resonating portion of the string, due the fact that bass frequencies are usually too low to excite the resonace.

If You like experimenting, tie a piezo pickup directly underside the nut and route the signal to a headphone amp or a separate track on Your soundcard or DMT. Depending of the construction, choise of wood, strings, playing technique etc. the difference of the nut material can be heard or not.

IMHO even when it can be heard with the piezo, it doesn't make any noticeable difference to the amplified sound.

As far as the debate about reinforced polymers and composites go, well...

Regards
Sam

 

[stedtale]

Hi, all.

Graptech is the answer for me when it comes to electrical instruments. Bone for acoustics.

The nut material changes the tone of the resonating part of the string between the nut and the fretting finger. Since bass strings tend to be heavier than guitar strings, the resonance frequency is too low and the ampitude too small to be noticeable.

With guitar strings the difference can be heard easier since there's usually more energy transferred to the resonating portion of the string, due the fact that bass frequencies are usually too low to excite the resonace.

If You like experimenting, tie a piezo pickup directly underside the nut and route the signal to a headphone amp or a separate track on Your soundcard or DMT. Depending of the construction, choise of wood, strings, playing technique etc. the difference of the nut material can be heard or not.

IMHO even when it can be heard with the piezo, it doesn't make any noticeable difference to the amplified sound.

As far as the debate about reinforced polymers and composites go, well...

Regards
Sam

That does make some sense. Thanks!

 

[FL Knifemaker]

As long as the material doesn't shrivel up when its' cold, it would work OK

 

[dvh]

Have to agree with those who say the nut material makes zero difference to any fretted note.

The only open strings I play are the low E and, rarely, the open A.