Oh God, not another Markbass comparison post...

[moulie]

...but I'm completely torn.

The time is near for a new amp purchase and the LMII and SA 450 are on the list.

The Shuttle 6.0 was on the list, But it's much more expensive (>$1,000) and seems more difficult to find around these parts, a situation I found odd.

I have A/B'd the two Markbass options twice in-store using a Bob Glaub and a DJ4 (both are very nice) and eq'd flat.

Here are my thoughts:

Tone: Minimal difference...but there IS a difference. The LMII seems to sound a little punchier, a little more aggressive. It's almost not enough of a difference to sway the decision but its there. I'm reluctantly giving this round to LMII.

Size/weight: LMII. But again, the difference is so minimal (about 1lb) that it really shouldn't figure into the decision. The markbass dealer in my area designed a shoulder strap bag for the LMII that improves portability. Nice Feature.

Price: LMII is a whole $60 cheaper. But this gap is closed with the purchase of the aforementioned bag for..you guessed it...$60.

Features: SA 450 takes this one. The added semi-pari EQ and D/I level seem useful. But again, this feature alone probably isn't enough to sway the decision either way.

Looks: SA 450 in my book. Looks more substantial, not out of place on top of a cab. More knobs = cooler.

So, as you can see, these seem almost completely equal. the differences are small enough to make this decision an all-encompassing torment for me. I don't want to buy one and still be GASsing for the other.

I plan on using whichever one i purchase as the go-to amp. And I plan on using it for the foreseeable future.

If anyone feels so moved by my dilemma to chime in, i would love to hear your opinions.

And any experiences from users of the two amps would also be of great value to me.

I understand that this decision is mine and mine alone governed by how i perceive the performance and features of each candidate, but multiple perspectives improve decision making.

I have also searched these two amps and read plenty on here. I was hoping for some fresh perspectives developed over time from this thread.

Thanks in advance. I think this covers the MB comparison thread for today.

peace.

 

[rappa29]

What kind of cabs are you going to be running with these heads?

If the stats are that close on paper, might be worth bringing your cabs and bass in for an A\B comparison and let your ears decide

Just a thought.

 

[KJung]

I own both. To me, they sound identical. However, per your post, just a slight, slight 'off noon' change in any of the tone controls can just ever so slightly change the tone to the point that they can sound a touch different in a solo playing setting where you are trying to hear a difference. It's hard to get them EQ'd exactly, identically, perfectly the same without any center detents on the tone controls.

It comes down to size and features, as you suggest. I primarily use my LMII (in a nice custom Mooradian bag) for most gigs (or my F1 in a similar bag). I use the SA450, which is rack mounted in a nice lightweight 2 space SKB rack when I either know there is going to be front of house support (given the more fully featured DI) or if I have to send my gear out of town in an equipment van (where the hard rack is much safer than the little soft bag).

Since I enjoy the tone of the LMII with my basses and cabs virtually flat (with maybe a touch of upper mid cut), the semi-parametric mids were not a big selling point.

IMO and IME!

 

[51m0n]

Well |I got the sa450 cos I really dig sweep eqs on bass rigs.

Having said that the last two gigs I've done (into a berg ae410) I've had the eq flat and the filters flat, the time before that I had the tiniest hint of lo freq boost. Oh and there is soooo much power/punch etc that front of house is not an issue to me either.

Now I still love the head, and for effectively equivalent money I would personally go for the sa450, since I wont take anything out thats not rackmounted, and they are the same size in a rack , and of course more features is alwa\ys a good thing, especially if you dont have to use them always (if you see what I mean)

Havent helped much have I

 

[KJung]

Well |I got the sa450 cos I really dig sweep eqs on bass rigs.

Having said that the last two gigs I've done (into a berg ae410) I've had the eq flat and the filters flat, the time before that I had the tiniest hint of lo freq boost. Oh and there is soooo much power/punch etc that front of house is not an issue to me either.

Now I still love the head, and for effectively equivalent money I would personally go for the sa450, since I wont take anything out thats not rackmounted, and they are the same size in a rack , and of course more features is alwa\ys a good thing, especially if you dont have to use them always (if you see what I mean)

Havent helped much have I

+1 If you are going to rack mount, the SA450 is a no brainer over the LMII. My 2 space SKB rack feels literally empty, and there is plenty room in the back for a nice heavy duty extension cord, a long power cord and speaker cable(s).

 

[moulie]

Kjung, I was hoping you would reply. I read a bunch of the shootout thread.

Anyway, i was wondering why you would want to add the bulk of a rack to the relatively small SA 450.

I guess protection is important.

How do you guys handle power conditioning with these units? Do they need it?

 

[KJung]

Kjung, I was hoping you would reply. I read a bunch of the shootout thread.

Anyway, i was wondering why you would want to add the bulk of a rack to the relatively small SA 450.

I guess protection is important.

How do you guys handle power conditioning with these units? Do they need it?

+1 It was a pure 'protection' issue for me. And per the above post, as long as you put it in a rack, the size advantage of the LMII becomes a moot point. You might as well get the extra features. I again use the F1 and LMII on 90% of my gigs, and only bring the racked SA450 in those situations where people who are not me are hauling my stuff!

You are right, the SA450 is small and light enough to work wonderfully in a bag. So, IMO, if you are not racking, it all comes down to this.... are you willing to pay a little more and go a little bigger to get the semi-parametric mids and the more fully featured DI.

K

 

[Big String]

I racked my LMII with a rack tuner in a 3 space Gator Shallow rack. It's great! True I can't sling the case over my shoulder but it's very light and my speaker cable, ac plug, and tuner already hooked up is all right there.... now if I could just find a way to make the front and rear case lids vaporize until the gig is over.... Works for me.

 

[KJung]

One more comment. I originally owned the SD800 as my 'rack mount' MB head. I figured that made a lot of sense at the time (i.e., a bigger and more powerful and fully featured head in a secure rack to use on the road and on bigger gigs, etc.).

I ended up never quite coming to terms with the sound of that head, but did enjoy the features and form factor, which are identical to the SA450. So, out went the SD800 and in came the SA450. They look identical, but the LMII-like tone of the SA450 works better for me than the more wide, modern, tone of the SD800, and I've yet to run out of headroom with the LMII, the SA450 or the F1 into my large, relatively high SPL 4ohm cabs.

Just FYI there.

 

[moulie]

I originally thought about these mini rigs to eliminate the nasty, 60lb rack i currently run.

I was going to go pedals for everything--no more rackmounted compressor, no more rack power conditioner, no more power amp.

I don't think I'll ever see my life in a bass place where someone else is loading/unloading my gear. Weekend warrior lives here.

I am, however, a little concerned about pulling either of these heads off the cabinet during a spirited performance or general murphy's lawism.

Okay, That said, if you could only keep 1 of your LMII or SA 450, what would it be?

 

[KJung]

I originally thought about these mini rigs to eliminate the nasty, 60lb rack i currently run.

I was going to go pedals for everything--no more rackmounted compressor, no more rack power conditioner, no more power amp.

I don't think I'll ever see my life in a bass place where someone else is loading/unloading my gear. Weekend warrior lives here.

I am, however, a little concerned about pulling either of these heads off the cabinet during a spirited performance or general murphy's lawism.

Okay, That said, if you could only keep 1 of your LMII or SA 450, what would it be?

For me, LMII... simple, great sounding, small, loud, reliable. I again run it virtually flat, so the bells and whistles of the SA450 don't impact me that much.

However, that's assuming the F1 is not in the mix. That is my 'go to head', and IMO is the best all in one bass amplifier I have ever experienced, based on size, volume, tone, quality, and darn near everything (assuming you like a clean but not sterile, punchy, relatively transparent/accurate tone, and have an evenly voiced 4ohm cab that can really make this head sing). That being said, I could happily play the LMII on every gig I do for the rest of my life and be very happy.

My feelings about the Markbass micro heads has actually gotten even stronger as I've spent time with the 'competition' (Genz 6.0, Eden260, etc.). The LMII/F1 really are at the top of the heap IMO regarding 'wump per pound and dollar' (again, assuming you are more of a 'I love my bass direct into a mixing board' type player).

 

[Tim1]

I must concur with what has been said. I really rate my SA450 but to be honest I do not use the extra features over the LMII. That said , I would purchase it again as it looks fantastic in my two space SKB rack - far better than the LMII, still very light and well protected also.

 

[choad42]

Hi there Moulie, I always respect Ken's thoughts and opinions on gear. Ken's observations, evaluations and conclusions always make a lot of sense to me. Having said that though, I thought I would chime in here seeing as how I started a thread on the Markbass SA 450 a few days ago. Thanks to Dave Freeman at ClubBass, a few years ago we had ourselves a little amp shootout of our own. In turn, I ran a LMII, an SA 450 and an EA iAMP500 into both Bergantino HT112 x 2 wonder stack and then into a single EA NL210.

My findings were that both the SA 450 and the iAMP500 sounded deeper, cleaner and more transparent then the LM II to me and only me for the sound I was looking for. Not night and day, I mean I was splitting hairs and really looking for a certain tone. There was a slight upper mid, somewhat nasally notch to the LM II that I could not get around even using the fantastic VPF. I would have tried it with more cabs, but I was to busy moving on the next amp to test out. To be honest, the LM II sounded great otherwise. Perhaps in a live setting I would have prefered it with that mid notch.

I really loved the EA iAMP500, the tone was exactly what I was looking for although it didn't have the horsepower I was looking for. The SA 450 took care of everything. Once I tried the SA 450 however I didn't hear that upper mid notch that the LM II had and it was quite louder than the iAMP500, although it sounded very similar to the iAMP500 albeit a little warmer. There was a clean, deep, natural presence to the tone. I was sold on the SA 450 from that point on. Due to availability and finances on my end, I couldn't get my hands on an SA 450 until only recently.

I was actually all set to get a Mesa M6 Carbine, but the manager at my local L&M told me he had an SA 450 in stock, I bought it the next day and have not looked back since!

At this point, I have no complaints about the SA 450 other than the fact that I really miss having a mute switch. It's a little thing, but most current amps have it - what gives Marco?

Anyways, my vote is for the SA 450. IMHO, it's a little nicer in quite a few ways than the LM II and it only costs a slight fraction more.

Cheers,
Paul Theriault
Bassjones
Link Removed

 

[KJung]

Hey Paul! +1... it's a hard decision between the more fully featured SA450 that's a little bigger, and the smaller but more basic LMII.

I'll have to go back and do a little more listening, since the way you and the OP describe the subtle difference in tone between the LMII and SA450 is pretty similar (even though your preferences are a touch different).

They obviously both sound great, and very close to one another.

That SA450 is so lightweight, that even though it's 'almost full size' it's very 'bag-able' also.

 

[choad42]

Hey Paul! +1... it's a hard decision between the more fully featured SA450 that's a little bigger, and the smaller but more basic LMII.

I'll have to go back and do a little more listening, since the way you and the OP describe the subtle difference in tone between the LMII and SA450 is pretty similar (even though your preferences are a touch different).

They obviously both sound great, and very close to one another.

That SA450 is so lightweight, that even though it's 'almost full size' it's very 'bag-able' also.

As always Ken you speak the truth! The weight of these amps boggles the mind. Sometimes it seems that the younger cats don't really appreciate why a crusty ol' flame out like me gets over excited when he lifts a 500 watt bass amp that weighs less than 8 pounds.

I threw mine into a Gator 2 space rackbag and that's it. Done. I was so sure that my next amp was going to be the Mesa M6 Carbine that I had all but written Markbass off. By chance, the SA 450 intercepted me before I jumped on the Mesa. I'm glad it worked out the way it did and I found what I need in this Markbass head. It's not perfect, it doesn't bring down the walls like a massive DB750 on a stack would, however it saved me some serious money and some serious back pain now and later. Why drag heavy gear around anymore if you don't have to. If I couldn't have an SA 450, I would be using a LMII for sure. Either way, Markbass are doing their share to make sure that it's a great time to play bass!!!!

Cheers,
Paul Theriault
Bassjones
Link Removed