• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Ok, well, then how does Stanley Clarke do it?!

#21
Dr. Cheese said:
Personally, I think the the biggest difference between Stanley and Jaco is that one went into a sharp tailspin after his ground breaking work and the other has gone on to a long and successful career as a recording artist and working musician. It shouldn't surprise anybody that Clarke is not as fresh sounding twenty-eight years after School Days or thirty years after his debut solo album. Had Jaco lived, he would be dipping into his old bag of tricks also.

Personally, I have always been a Stanley Clarke fan. He showed me what the bass was capable of while others had only hinted at its potential as a solo instrument. Similarly, Jaco came out of left field with a lead fretless tone and harmonics use that had folks scratching their heads for about three years. Although Jaco has been a huge influence on all electric bassists, he didn't hit me like Stanley. I suspect that simply reflects where my head was as a person and (amatuer) musician. For other people, Jaco was the man who paved the way. I'm sure that for players fifteen and twenty years younger than me, Victor Wooten is having the same affect.

The bottom line is that we have all been influenced by somebody and it does very little good to rip each others icons.
Click to expand...


BRAVO!! BRAVO!! I couldn't have said it better myself. :)
 
#23
john turner said:
shoot, so did jaco. a lot.
Click to expand...
I'm not talking about frequent use of fave chords, licks, or even sequences (which we've heard Jaco do). Stanley has complete sections of certain compositions (from his 70's & 80's work) that are so similar I thought I had the wrong album playing for a second.

When did Pro-Tools come out?;) ;) :D
 
#24
Dr. Cheese said:
Had Jaco lived, he would be dipping into his old bag of tricks also.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but Stanley was already doing it on his 70's and 80's work.

Dr. Cheese said:
...it does very little good to rip each others icons.
Click to expand...
Which is why I put the disclaimer in the post.
Not trying to "rip", just an analytical viewpoint.

It's just a discussion. Let's not be too thin skinned.:)
 
#25
PhatBasstard said:
One man's "B.S. run" is another man's musical statement.
One no more or less valid than the other.
But "not articulated"?!? :eyebrow: :rollno:
Click to expand...
i never said one method is more valid. i love stanley's playing, but when watching him play one of those speed runs, its him sliding his left hand up and down a string. that same chromatic run hes doing would be a lot more difficult if his left hand was fingering each of those notes. hence, the bs run as the notes are just a blur and not individually articulated. but, thats his intended effect and gave him that "sheets of sound" thing he was going for.

PhatBasstard said:
Jaco is obviously the most musically prolific of the three,
but what would you call all that Bass Olympics stuff Vic does 90% of the time?:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

dont get me started on vic :D hes gotten to the point where hes just as much of a showman as a musician. not that theres anything wrong with that, but it can get a bit fatiguing.

PhatBasstard said:
If Stanley has a fault it's that he tends to plagiarize himself quite often in his compositions.
Click to expand...
i hear ya on that one. theres that one ascending section that's on hymn of the seventh galaxy,his s/t solo album,then again on the vertu cd :D
 
#26
Phatbasstard, I'm not thin skinned about Stanley Clarke. He is able to speak for himself if he wants to and he is likely more worried about his next job than anything posters on a forum have to say about him. I just felt that from the tone of few posts, this could end up being a ugly, pointless argument. I can see your point about Clarke's repititiousness. I noticed it myself long ago and I no longer buy his CD's although I would enjoy seeing him live again.

Clarke's compositional shortcomings by no means lessen his influence on all bassists who came after him. I just believe that genuine creativity is finite and that virtually any artist who plays long enough starts to repeat him or herself. The artists who tend to last longest are those like Miles Davis who really heavily on collaboration with fresh voices.

I don't know what Jaco would have done had he lived more than anyone else, but I can easily imagine that listening to "Teen Town," " Portrait of Tracy," "Havona" or any other Jaco standard would be very different in 2004 now that one can go to Guitar Center and see advanced students playing his stuff note for note on a good day. :bassist:
 
#27
I don't think Stanley lacks creativity. I've heard some of his movie scores and he's quite prolific as a composer/musician. I read an interview years ago where he simply said he had nothing to prove on the bass - and was simply enjoying writing music in various formats - which is why there are long periods of time between his solo projects. Also, what about us? We raise the bar sometimes on the "professionals" - but what about us? What are we playing? What are we pioneering?

Stanley's simply doing what is successful for him. Think about Stewart Copeland, Branford Marsalis, Marcus Miller, Sting and may others that stepped away from the "spot light" for movie scoring, etc. - Why? Because it pays the rent. What's wrong with getting paid?

Stanley was talking about doing the music tracks on a CD of poetry. Problem is, allot of "bass players" aren't going to hear this at all. Sometimes art supersedes the flash and the flurry.

I'm a fan of Stanley, Jaco, Marcus, Sting - all of them. But after a dozen groundbreaking albums - I think we get mad when it stops - we want them to blow our minds forever. But the simple truth is - people change and move on.

We as fans need to accept this - if Jaco was still here we'd probably be having this conversation about him...

Peace
 
#28
I think we are sort of saying the same thing. Stanley's records between 1980-1990 defintely sound like a guy who was no longer being challenged. I'm sure that soundtracks and other projects allow him to stimulate himself in way that playing 64th note for guys playing airbass no longer does. :rolleyes:
 
#29
narud said:
its him sliding his left hand up and down a string. that same chromatic run hes doing would be a lot more difficult if his left hand was fingering each of those notes. hence, the bs run as the notes are just a blur and not individually articulated. but, thats his intended effect and gave him that "sheets of sound" thing he was going for.
Click to expand...
I know the sliding thing you're talking of. As long as his right hand "articulates" at the proper time, it matters not if he's sliding up the string with one finger.
However, I was basing my analysis more on other things he's played as well.
Things that are not "slides" or "B.S. runs".
 
#32
About Stanleys technique, I've been trying to cop his speed and attack but never got it done with three fingers in a "normal" fashion. Thats why I started with a new technique a few years ago wich I (to my knowledge) invented myself.
It's regular plucking with three fingers but after you pluck with the ring,middle,index you do an upstroke with the index and then start all over again. So it's like playing quadruplets instead of triplets. But it takes a lot of strenght and practice, and I'm still not super at it after 3 years. If you're interested I can send a small wav.file for those who want to hear it.

Then I also have an alternative for Vic's thumb,pluck,pluck technique. It's played with the thumb and the index, just like you can use the thumb in an up and down stroke fashion you can also do it with the index. this way you double the speed.
With this technique you can get Vic's and Stanleys speed with ease. :D
 
#34
Jim T. said:
Part of Stanley Clarke's speed comes from his playing a short scale (30.75") bass guitar. Same goes for his propensity for string bending on the lesser tensioned strings.
Click to expand...
I have to disagree.
I believe most "articulated" speed (plucking every note) is more of a challenge for the plucking hand than the fretting hand for most people.
A shorter scale bass would be no advantage or disadvantage for the plucking hand.
Now granted, the string spacing on those Alembics is much narrower than the average bass guitar,
but it still wouldn't account for his amazing speed on DB.

From a pure chops standpoint, I think Stanley has to be put at the top of the heap.:bassist:
 
#35
PhatBasstard said:
I have to disagree.
I believe most "articulated" speed (plucking every note) is more of a challenge for the plucking hand than the fretting hand for most people.
A shorter scale bass would be no advantage or disadvantage for the plucking hand.
Now granted, the string spacing on those Alembics is much narrower than the average bass guitar,
but it still wouldn't account for his amazing speed on DB.

From a pure chops standpoint, I think Stanley has to be put at the top of the heap.:bassist:
Click to expand...

Very true. Also, I've seen him to what he does on a very long scale Alembic - stringed with normal guage strings.

there was no difference in talent - he was just an octave lower.

Check out that Live CD - I think it's entitled "Live 1976-1977" - you hear him doing it all on a "regular" bass. You'll have no doubt when you hear it that he's NOT playing a tenor or a piccolo.
 
#36
PhatBasstard said:
From a pure chops standpoint, I think Stanley has to be put at the top of the heap.:bassist:
Click to expand...

true again. every note is articulated. If he plays a 25 note run you hear every note from the first to the last - very stacato. Victor Wooten is another that does well at this. But allot of players don't have the finger strength to pull that off ALL the time. Even with "slower" runs.

As far as the whole sliding hand thing. That's simply one tool in his arsenal. The "runs" he does and that "slide" thing aren't even the same thing. And I'm confused why some can't hear and understand that..... when i was 10 or 11 i knew the difference. How do some us not hear that now that were adults?
 
#38
Hi Chris, Well...considering that in theory, proper synchronization of the left and right hands when playing, consists of plucking and fretting a "new" note simultaneously to keep "absolute" time and good articulation, the shorter scale can't hurt to make that even easier. Granted DB doesn't slow Stanley down any! He IS blessed with l-o-n-g fingers!

Wonder why he prefers the short scale on his electric basses then? Anyone ever read/hear him say why?
 
#39
Jim T. said:
Hi Chris, Well...considering that in theory, proper synchronization of the left and right hands when playing, consists of plucking and fretting a "new" note simultaneously to keep "absolute" time and good articulation, the shorter scale can't hurt to make that even easier. Granted DB doesn't slow Stanley down any! He IS blessed with l-o-n-g fingers!

Wonder why he prefers the short scale on his electric basses then? Anyone ever read/hear him say why?
Click to expand...
I've always been curious about that. He's a tall guy with long fingers and you'd think he'd be playing wide neck, 35" scale basses! And then you have a little guy (well, height wise) like Anthony Jackson who plays a super wide necked 'contra' bass! Go figure! It's weird though because the bass really doesn't look that small when he's playing it!

Invalid Link Removed
 
#40
I've been playing for about 25 years now and Stanley was probably my first true bass "hero", yet I have learned a lot of stuff on this thread about his style that I actually never knew.

Not hard to see why it's so easy to get addicted to this site! :hyper:
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back